Newbie needs help finalizing gear

Norman Willis wrote on 12/8/2008, 12:27 AM

Hi. It is a long story, but basically I am trying to make some documentaries, and the video editing got dumped in my lap. I need to get up to speed as fast as possible. I have been reading, but still have questions, and am hoping some of you pros could please help me finish configuring my computer. Thank you for your patience and help.

I am making 2-6 hour long documentaries, with the base footage shot in an indoor studio with three point lighting. I will be editing on a three year old Dell Precision 380 workstation with a Pentium D 930 at 3.0 GHz. I have 4GB RAM on Windows XP SP3, with the Control Panel prefs set to 'performance'. NLE is Vegas 8. Hard Drive C is twin 250GB 7200 RPM HDD's in RAID 0 that back up externally to a 1TB Seagate via Symantec BESR 8.0. Hard Drive D is twin 1TB Seagate 7200 RPM HDD's in RAID 1. The video card is a Palit (NVidia) GeForce 8600 Super +1GB. The primary filming camera is a Sony HDR-FX1, but I will use an HDR-HC1 to feed the tape into the computer via firewire.

1. My main concern is the processor. Is a Pentium D 930 at 3.0 GHz capable of handling and rendering 2-6 hour films with Sony Vegas? The Sony website gives the minimum spec for HDV in Vegas at 2.8 GHz, but I read somehwere that this is only the minimum system requirement, and that it is much better if your processor is stronger than that, especially once the machine gets warm. I can upgrade to a 3.4 GHz processor (Pentium D 950) for about $120.00, or to a 3.6 (Pentium D 960) for about $240.00 plus grease, but would upgrading to 3.4 or 3.6 GHz processor do anything to make the editing/rendering process more stable/reliable? Or is a 3.0 GHz Pentium D 'plenty' of processor even for long HDV renders? A new system is out of the question at this point.

2. A related concern is the codec. I am told that Cineform NeoHD can convert the HDV codec to HD. It is expensive, but I am told that processors can handle HD much easier than they can handle HDV. I am also told that it gives greater fidelity. Does anyone have experience with this? If I purchase Cineform NeoHD, would I still be well advised to upgrade the processor to 3.4 or 3.6 GHz? Or is a 3.0 GHz Pentium D 'lots' of processor, whether in HDV or in HD?

3. My second main concern is the HDD arrays. Instead of having C: in RAID 0 and D: in RAID 1, would it be better to put C: in RAID 1 and D: in RAID 0, and then back up the D drive externally? Or do both C: and D: need to be in RAID 0 with external backups?

4. Is the video card adequate? I can upgrade to an NVidia Quadro FX570, but that is the only Quadro my power supply (375W) will handle, and I would prefer to save the cash if a GeForce 8600 will perform reliably.

5. Do I need any kind of a video capture card? I have just been feeding tape into the motherboard via the 1394 Firewire port. Is that good enough?

Thank you very much for your help. We used to have a budget, but not any longer. Still, it is do-or-die time, and this is my life, and I love what I do. If there is something that will make a difference, I will find a way to do it.

Thank you very much for your patience and help.

Norman

Comments

randy-stewart wrote on 12/8/2008, 3:26 AM

Norman,

I'm sure others with more knowledge will chime in but here's my 2 cents:

1. I don't think going to a faster processor will make that much difference unless you go to dual or quad processors. Your machine should be able to handle what you are doing now (especially if you use proxys as I recommend later) but would work better with more processors rather than speed.

2. As for the CODEC, recommend you use a proxy file to edit. Get a plug-in from VASST called Gear Shift (http://www.vasst.com) rather than spending a lot of money on another CODEC. Basically, you edit your HDV files just like they were SDV and then the software converts them back to HDV when you are done. Works really well.

3. I don't see any big advantage in changing your hard drive configurations. The biggest thing is to have a different working drive than where your software (Vegas/operating system) is resident. Others may have a different view on this one.

4. Your graphics card is fine. Vegas is not too dependent upon the graphics card.

5. No, you don't need another video capture card. Firewire (or USB) is fine.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your project. Sounds like a lot of work.

Randy

PeterWright wrote on 12/8/2008, 4:02 AM

Norman - are you really making 2 x 6 hour documentaries???

If so, I suspect you may have misjudged the extent of human concentration.

As Stewart has responded, it really has very little to do with CPU and RAM.

The hardware/'software combination only affects how long the processing takes, not whether the project is feasible. The important thing is whether people can follow the message you are trying to get across.

Editing, whilst made easier and smoother by particular PC set-ups, is much more about judgement of how the program is compiled - whether it says what you want it to say, in a way that keeps your audience engaged.

blink3times wrote on 12/8/2008, 4:02 AM

Your machine, although a bit underpowered by today's standards, will do the job. A video card is not a critical item in Vegas since it is almost purely cpu and memory driven so the present card will work fine. You WOULD be better off with a quad core cpu but not having one won't mean the end of the world. You will face longer render times however.... quite a bit longer as compared to a quad core.

Cineform is nice.... but not necessary. Vegas handles HDV directly on the time line. I think with your present machine you will find the time line playback to be jerky and you will have to set your preview right down to draft mode to get a reasonable playback frame rate. You can always use RAM preview, but it does take time to load a sequence. I don't see Cineform improving the situation that drastically either. In fact if you have money for cineform then I would instead invest it in a quad cpu.

I take it that C drive is your OS/program drive? Then I would not run this in RAID at all. Get an additional drive and run D and E and RAID if you wish, but my experience with the root included in RAID is asking for major trouble should RAID ever screw up...... and it DOES do it on occasion. You didn't say how big your drives are but If you're capturing/editing 6 hours of HDV at a time then you will most likely need another drive anyway. It's best to have one drive for capture/edit and another separate one for render if you can.

farss wrote on 12/8/2008, 4:12 AM

Video card doesn't matter.
That's going to be a heck of a lot of footage, what is your shooting ratio?
How many tracks to do you think you'll need, vision and audio etc?

This could be a non trivial project, quite daunting on anything.

Going for a DI like NeoHDV or NeoHD could be a very wise move, Vegas can get pretty ugly with very large numbers of HDV clips and tracks. If anyone wants to tell you otherwise ask them how much actual first hand experience they've got tackling a project of this magnitude.
You'll be putting in a lot of hours into this, a common rule of thumb is 1 hour per minute of content, you don't want anything getting in the way of your work. Yes Vegas can handle it but you need planning and testing.

And yes, put your source media onto a RAID 0 drive. Using RAID for your system drive is a waste.

Bob.

blink3times wrote on 12/8/2008, 5:01 AM

[i]"If anyone wants to tell you otherwise ask them how much actual first hand experience they've got tackling a project of this magnitude."[i]

Haven't had 6 hours on the time line before, but I have had 2.5 (just a little under 1000 HDV clips) on 3 tracks with no issues. Granted I am running a quad with 8gig ram.... not sure I would try that with an old style dual.

Gary R. Brown wrote on 12/8/2008, 10:14 AM

All in all, the advice offered here is good. I do LONG 3 - 5 hour school board meetings and can say 'Ouch' for you. Try your first edit as is and see what is up. On an older machine (non-dual or Quad Proc) Cineform makes the edit easier on the processor. However look at the cost of Cineform vs upgrading your processor.

If you schedule your workflow right you can hit the render button as you toddle off to bed and that way speed is less of an issue. The variable preview quality option in Vegas will really help you as the speed oft he processor will limit your playback during your edit session. Remember that backing up is as easy as a separate .veg file because your footage is already 'backed up' on the source tape. Name your tapes properly and vegas can rebuild the whole shebang from the veg file. Good luck!

GB-)