I may be wrong here, but I think you are confusing two differnent editing tools.
The track motion tool is the one that you'd use for your zoom - it has keyframes.
The transition tools are a function of the clips, not the tracks. They have no visible keyframes, but rather are implemented by dragging the little "arc" icon into the clip frame.
Try this:
Make a new title on a new track. Put your entry transition and your exit transition in place.
Then drag this new title clip onto the track where you current have the zoom up - or simply create a new zoom up on the new title on the new track.
It's not a matter of procedure - it's just that you've confused two entirely different tools.

Thanks Darryl & vicmilt.
But no... I know this much... I think.
Maybe I shouldn't have used "Zoom" as an example. But it does this with all transitions; page turn, linier wipe, etc.
My problem is that when I try to manipulate the final transition, it's only scrubbing the first part of the clip. It's a really strange problem.
I'm explaining it poorly.
Basically, I open the final transition. When I scrub in the area where the keyframes should be, I am only able to manipulate the begining of the clip.
I made this simple page to illustrate the problem (note: I left the pic rather large so we could see detail):
http://www.matthewroddy.com/transitionproblem
See where the curser is on the timeline? And then check out where it is on the keyframe window.
I just know this is a no-brainer problem, but I've struggled with it since last night. That's why I'm bringing it up here.
Thanks for the help.

I could not tell if your sync cursor was on at bottom of your window .If that helps .

Jon

You are looking at the keyframe timeline in the Transition dialog, but you're looking at the cursor on the timeline. The keyframe timeline in the transitions dialog is only relevant to the length of the transition.
In other words, you could have a 10 second event with a 3 second transition or fade. If you dropped a filter on the 10 second event, you'd see a 10 second timeline in the filter's keyframe timeline. But if you drop a transition on the 3 second transition, you'll only see a 3 second keyframe timeline.
Does that help?

Meanwhile, this is why I love this forum.

I LIVE inside of Vegas and had NO idea there was such a thing as "zoom transition" - probably saw it three years ago and promptly forgot it -
can't wait to run in and see what it does -

so you can forget my solution (to a misunderstood problem). But good luck. I"m certain you will figure out where you've gone wrong - and when you do - post it here for the rest of us.... :>))

I'm betting wak is right: he just needs to click the "sync curser" button. That will do what he wants (isn't vegas nice that way? You can easily turn on/off certain customizations!)

Look at the length of the transition selection. Look at the length of the keyframe timeline in the transition window. Notice Sync is enabled. Whether you want to consider it a bug or just an anomoly, you can get the cursor indicator in the Keyframe timeline to sit in any number of more or less irrelevant locations, because the keyframe timeline is only associated with the transition.

I'm sorry... I'm just not wrapping my head around this.
I've modified the above web page
http://www.matthewroddy.com/transitionproblem
with some bigger pics (I tried to resample them down, but they lost enough detail that I didn't know if they'd still be readable)(sorry for the LARGE file size).
The bottom pic is of an effect that behaves exactly as I would expect and the same way Douglas' pic looks; the curser is synced to the timeline position. However, in the modified transition problem (top pic), I have the Sync button activated and still, the cursor in the timeline isn't anywhere near the position in the keyframe window.
The cursor isn't even in the area of the transition, even though that transition's window is open. It *appears* as though my Vegas just isn't syncing in transitions anymore.
Now, I can work around this, just by knowing the cursor is not syncing, but it just feels wrong.
I apologize if the solution is simple and I'm just not seeing it.

Only difference I can see is that you havn't shifted Focus to the Video FX Transition Menu - ie, the top Bar is greyed out, it should be Deep Windows Blue. But, in the example I can clearly see the top Windows BAr is Deep Blue - yes? This would indicate to me you haven't "updated" that window, and the Cursor position and/or you haven't clicked anywhere on it. The Window PAne is just refelceting back your last use? Does this make sense? If this is NOT the case then there IS a seroous problem. HAve you tried another trannie? Does it poonly happen with Zoom trannie? You have intrigued me. I'm gonna give it a go myself now! - It wasn't until you posted some pictures that I knioda understood what the hassle was!

Just bootong up . . .

Grazie

. . er . . how do I say this ..

I think what you might be seeing - or rather NOT seeing - is that the Synced cursor for the trannie is not on the section you have FOR the trannie. If you have adjusted the length of the trannie and it is now "beyond" the T/L Cursor on the main pane of V5, you need to update the Trannie Menu T/L by moving your V5 T/L cursor into the area of the NEW trannie. This will then UPDATE the Trannie Window Pane. I believe I have duplicated your "observation" and I can only think that you have altered the trannie length and you are expecting to have this - cursor position - reflected in the Trannie Window Pane - it wont! Shift the V5 T/L Cursor to the new trannie position and your Trannie Menu Window Pane SHOULD now truly reflect WHERE the V5 T/L Cursor is . .. well it would .. wouldn't it?

I have also SCRUBBED the V5 T/L Cursor from a point PRIOR to the Trannie > thru the Trannie and out the other end. What I see within the Trannie Window T/L is the cursor start moving AS I ENTER the trannie . .. move along to the right and then stop JUST as I exit the area of the trannie. So, in your example, you see 3.26 in both the Trannie Window PAne AND the V5 T/L. I can SEE that your trannie duration is 4 seconds long and the the Trannie cursor is at 3.26. I can also see that your cursor position is AT the 3.26 maker in the V5 T/L - this is numerically the same BUT is not same status being displayed. I think/believe that what you are "seeing" is a figure that IS the same - 3.26 - and cionfusing this with overall "position" . . they just "happen" to be the same Numbers. V5 T/L Curosr positio is 3.26 - Trannie T/L curosr position 3.26 . . but they do not relate to each other . . . If you look very closely at the picture of your Trannie you will clearly SEE that the V5 T/L cursor is prior to your Trannie BUT your Trannie T/L curosr is registering 3.26 - that's ONLY the number for the trannie. NOW then the ONLY way I could repeat this is to place the cursor AT 3.26 THEN disconnect/unlick the Synch cursor option - this "holds" the Trannie Cursor at 3.26 - switch to the V5 T/L and get to 3.26 of overall project length. In other owrds DON'T deselect/unclick the Synch cursor option. If you leave it on then bioth cursors will be updated in realtime.

Basically, you need to have the V5 Cursor WITHIN the new trannie duration for it to be register/noticed by the tranie Menu Pane. This makes sense to me at least. The V5 Cursor position wont update the YTrannie Cursor position 'cos, well, it isn't any where near it. I think the confusuion lies in the way you are thinkning about Trannies and FXs. Trannies are limited to the actual trannie length. FXs - your Colour Corrector FX - is limited to the actual Video Event. Mostly FXs are therefore gonna be L o n g e r than trannies - I did say mostly. Herein lies the logic bomb. Trannies will be only at the ends or beginnings of longer video events; FXs are as long as the Video Event.

This has taken me a a bit of time to unravel, but I really think you were/are seeing the same numbers and wondering why this should be. What I don't understand now is that in your example you have the Trannie T/L re-synched AND your Cursors don't match up! This I can't - as yet - duplicate.

Grazie


... just edited for spilling mesteaks! Geez .. life used to be so simple!

What I have also noticed is that you have the Envelope Edit Tool AND the NORMAL Edit tool both Highlighted. Can you see that? I can only get One or the other. .. but not both? How do you do that? How can you have Normal Edit and Envelope Edit Tool acitive at the same time? It is as if you have two screen shots going at once? Weird! How have you done that?

Now, this linked with you SEEING the Synch cursor "lit" when your cursors don't align might point to another issue. Geez, this is some issue you have brought before us . . . .

Best regards,

Grazie

I'm not sure if this is going to be helpful, but I'm seeing the exact same thing on my copy of V5 (and V3) as you're seeing. I guess I've never noticed it because I almost never edit keyframes within a transition.

What's happening is that the cursor in the transition edit window is synced with the timeline cursor only as a reference to the event itself, and not the transition length (or position) in the event. So if you are editing a transition at the beginning of an event then the cursor sync behaves as you expect it to with the timeline cursor and the transition cursor (and the preview window) updating at the same frame. But, if the transition is at the end of a clip then it doesn't behave as expected. It just reverts back to the beginning of the event as if that is the area of the timeline you are editing.

And the "sync cursor" button in the transition edit window doesn't seem to effect this behavior in any way.

I'm going to do a few more tests, but it appears to me to either be "designed behavior" or a bug. But either way, it doesn't look like you'll be able to have keyframe / cursor sync (or see an updated preview) when editing the outgoing transition in a clip.

I'm back ;-)

I think I see what's going on... In your example project you're not really using a transition as a transition. A transition is just that -- a "transition" from one source to another. So it needs two sources to work. If you place two clips (or events) on the same track and overlap them you will get the default dissolve. Now drag and drop a transition unto the overlap and you will get the transition edit window. Now move you cursor within the transition editor and you get the cursor sync you expect to see.

Now drag the events apart and then use your transition length adjustment tool to drag a transition at the end of the first event and notice that it's the default fade type. But drag a transition at the beginning of the second event and you'll see that it is the transition type you dropped while the two were overlapped.

So, this means that Vegas applies a transition to the beginning of a clip (when used as a transition) thus the transition edit window will always show the timeline / transition "sync" as if the transition is applied to the beginning of an event -- not the end...

Doesn't answer your question, but might help clarify what appears to be the behavior you are seeing.

I finally recreated the situation I believe your talking about . your transition is not a true transition between 2 events but a transition on a fade, so I believe the transition must be referencing the time of the beginning of the event because it only has the 1 event to reference so I believe a transition must always use the beginning of an event and since it's not a transition between 2 events it can only use the reference of the event it has to work with.
Now if you have 2 events with a cross fade and a transition and you still have this problem then I don't think I understand what your problem is
So if you insert an empty event or solid color on the end of your event than the transition on a crossfade , I think that would correct what I believe you are talking about . It looks like the transition needs that 2nd event for proper time reference .
I see I'm saying about the same as Jim .

Jon.

mjroddy? - I still want to know how you achieved getting both those tools "engaged" at the same time? - Grazie

Gracie: I believe you are looking at lock envelope to event and not envelope edit tool .

Jon

Me BAD! Thanks wakiyan . .j ust seen the tiny "lock" .. . !

Grazie

Thanks Jim (it's midnight in CA, USA and I'm JUST now getting back to the Forum). You've helped me believe - if only for a moment - that I'm not going nuts.
And, YOU'RE RIGHT (but you knew that). How I came upon my delima was by having text "zoom away." Since I was using the "Zoom" effect in a clip that didn't have a partner to disolve to, I got the "bug." Ok, ok... DON'T call it a bug... Sorry. It's just an odd feature.

Sorry Grazie... I'm not sure HOW I got both to be active at the same time... I actually... not sure what you're referring to. It looks to me as though only one window in each sinario is active. You do know that those are two pictures are very seperate time lines, right? A Print Screen taken at totally different times. But it looks like you got it all figured out.

At any rate, THANKS GUYS!!!! I appreciate being set square in this matter. Now I know not to expect an envelope window to be accurte on an outgoing transition when it's not ... um... going out to something. Like I said, it was for text media to be exited in a different way than disolve.
I'm back on track. I'm not bonkers (well...) and my copy of Vegas isn't broken. Life is good.

Thanks again!!!

Glad to be of service ;-)

By the way. I think I have a way for you to keyframe edit your effect/transition with timeline cursor sync at the end of an event -- Just overlap an "empty" event at the end of your event you need an outgoing effect on.

I just tried it with a media generated event (text with a transparent background, but delete all of the text) and it worked great. You adjust the duration of the outgoing transition by adjust the amount of overlap.

The cursor will now stay sync'd while you edit the keyframes.

Jim