Number of Photoshop Layers Bug?

arbory wrote on 9/8/2010, 9:25 AM
i found possibly another photoshop layer bug (9.0e 64bit):

i did this with CS3

create an empty photoshop file with an backgound and one layer
drag it to the timeline as one event (not with right mouse button - just plain without layers across tracks import)
add or remove one layer in photoshop and save the file again.
switch to vegas

->vegas complains now. "an error occured opening the media file"

remove or add one layer (the same number of layers like it was before), save again

->vegas loads the file again without complain

that is ridiculous!!
i like the new photoshop layer import, across tracks - but 95% the time i do not need different psd layers in vegas.
when update an psd file (which includes adding or removing layers!) i would like to see the same behaviour as in all vegas versions before (testet until 9.0c).

the workaround for now is to keep the same number of layers in psd files - or work only with single layered psd files.

Comments

baysidebas wrote on 9/8/2010, 9:49 AM
Why don't you keep the multilayered psd to work on, but merge layers and save-as to a file you bring into Vegas? Just a couple extra steps to avoid problems such as this.
richard-amirault wrote on 9/8/2010, 10:44 AM
the workaround for now is to keep the same number of layers in psd files - or work only with single layered psd files.

OR .. save the file with a different name when you modify it.

OR .. wait 'till you have finished modifying it before you import it to Vegas.

OR .. flatten the file before importing to Vegas.

I'm finding it hard to understand why you are complaining. You are modifying a piece of media that is already being used in Vegas .. and Vegas is complaining ... I'm not surprised that it complains.

You could do this in older versions .. but in older versions Vegas did not have the "layers" feature and saw the image as one, flat, single track piece of media despite the number of layers in the PSD. Vegas 9 does not see it this way.
farss wrote on 9/8/2010, 2:22 PM
"I'm finding it hard to understand why you are complaining. You are modifying a piece of media that is already being used in Vegas .. and Vegas is complaining ... I'm not surprised that it complains"

I'm surprised that Vegas complains. I can open audio files in an external editor from within Vegas, change and save them. Vegas does not complain. In fact for any other type of media if Vegas sees that the media has changed it re-imports them, rebuilds it's internal references etc. This 'feature' does not conform to the way the rest of Vegas works.

If in previous versions Vegas always imported as a flattened file and a new feature is added to import as layers then it should be just that, a new feature, and it should not break previous functionality.

Arbory is correct, this new feature is badly implemented. Also the proposed work arounds assume the user has access to a means of editing a PSD file, what if they don't.

Bob.
richard-amirault wrote on 9/8/2010, 4:39 PM
Arbory is correct, this new feature is badly implemented. Also the proposed work arounds assume the user has access to a means of editing a PSD file, what if they don't.

If they don't .. then the file wouldn't change .. and it would not be a "problem" in Vegas.

What it seems like Arbory wants .. is to import a layered PSD file into Vegas .. have vegas split each layer into a seperate track ... then, for some reason, he needs/wants to modify that PSD and he wants Vegas to automatically adjust to the modifications. IMHO, that is asking a LOT from Vegas.
arbory wrote on 9/9/2010, 3:19 AM
"Arbory is correct, this new feature is badly implemented."

that´s what i mean!
i know if you do some work with multi layered psd files you have to have some discipline when you already imported a psd file on different tracks.
but if you take a multi layer photoshop file as one event - you should be able to add and remove layers, save the file - and it is updated in vegas.
i don´t want to do some workaround (save it as one layer etc....)

as far as i understand a multi layered photoshop file has all the layers plus one layer which is the flattened layer.
vegas acesses them as streams (btw. you can change the streams with the right mouse button, but NOT in properties dialoge!)
that´s why you have in vegas always one more stream than layers (for example if you have 3 layers - you have 4 streams)
stream 1 is the flattened one, stream 2,3,4,...are the individual layers in reverse order (2 is backround, 3 is layer above,...)
so with a clean implementation of layered psd files in vegas there should not be a problem:
stream1 (the flattened layer) is always there in an updated psd file - the only thing which is changing is the number of streams of the event - which seems to be the problem for vegas!

so the best solution would be to update the number of streams automatically when a psd file layers number is changed (or give a dialoge box or warning that the number of streams of an media file has changed) and not "an error occured opening the media file"
rs170a wrote on 9/9/2010, 6:04 AM
as far as i understand a multi layered photoshop file has all the layers plus one layer which is the flattened layer.

Sorry but you're mistaken.
A 4 layer PSD file only has 4 layers.
When you bring it into Vegas, it comes in as a single layer which is probably what you were thinking of.
When you drop it on a Pro 9 timeline using the "add across tracks" option, then you see all 4 layers individually.

BTW, if you use rosebud's excellent Open In Graphic Editor script, you can click on an individual track, open it in Photoshop, modify it, save it and have it instantly updated in Vegas as a new take.

Mike
Grazie wrote on 9/9/2010, 6:42 AM
Mike? I wanted to check something more with this . . but now I am getting a really messy Right>Drag release as Tracks options. Something has upset VP9e?

Cheers

Grazie
Grazie wrote on 9/9/2010, 6:57 AM
Phew . . Had to remove the default BackGround and INTRA layer doing nothing . .User error!

Grazie
arbory wrote on 9/9/2010, 7:25 AM
"Sorry but you're mistaken. A 4 layer PSD file only has 4 layers."

No! If you have 4 Layers they are imported across tracks as stream 2,3,4,5
rightclick one of the events of the psd file and choose stream->stream 1 and you have the flattened image.

as far as i know an photoshop file has really an additional layer for the final composited merged image (at the end of the file) - and i assume stream1 is this layer in vegas (as it was imported flat in previeous versions)
"Maximize compatibility when saving files" has to be turned on in newer CS versions which is by default on. then photoshop saves an additional composite (flattened) image along with the layers.
that´s why you can open psd files in all kind of applications (like irfanview and other viewers) with dozen of layers, masks and the most uncommon blending modes, etc.. and they have 100% the same pixels as in photoshop.

but this is not the point - all i ask for is that vegas should be intelligent enough to deal with a changed number layers in psd files and then update the number of streams in the media event and not throwing out "an error occured opening the media file".