on building a new overclocked computer

LReavis wrote on 8/10/2010, 7:01 PM
After almost 3 happy years with my Q6600 modestly overclocked to 2.7 gHz, I bit the bullet and built a new editing/animation computer. I spent a lot of time reading and considering options, and I hope the following can save time for anyone wanting to upgrade their hardware.

Intending to keep my computer for at least 3 years, I chose the older X58 (for 1366-pin CPUs) option instead of the trendy P55 (1156-pin CPUs) - mainly because the potential bandwidth is twice as great and, hopefully, I can pop in an affordable 6-core chip with 32 nm traces as soon as one is released by Intel. Generally, it is believed that the X58 provides better future-proofing than the P55 alternative.

Having made that decision, I looked for an i7 920 CPU, for there apparently is no difference, on average, between the 920, 930, and 940. However, I found several 940s that were cheaper than any 920 that I could find, so I bought one for $225 - a steal (from Amazon.com).

These Bloomfield CPUs generally overclock to about 4 gHz, and, at that speed, should perform almost as well as a stock Intel 980X (see http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-980x-gulftown,2573-6.html and notice that the 920 at 2.66 gHz is 97 seconds, a bit more than 50% slower than the 60 seconds of the 980X on the Mainconcept render test; so at 4 gHz, which is about 50% faster than 2.66 gHz, the two should be fairly close).

Having read the reviews, I put it on an ASRock X58 Extreme (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cheap-x58-motherboard,2368-3.html, that turned up on sale at Newegg for $180. It has 8 SATA ports (2 of them SATA 6), an eSATA port on the rear with an option to use one of the internal SATAs as a front eSATA, numerous USB-2s and a pair of USB-3s, several PCI and PCIe slots (iincluding a pair of widely-spaced PCIe-16s, in case you want a pair of good graphics cards in SLI in order to benefit from the presumed GPA utilization in the next release of Vegas), and other goodies.

After choosing the CPU and motherboard, the heat sink is the next most important decision. I chose the Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170472724197&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT, for $60. Others show slightly better performance IF you lap their rough interface with fine-grit sandpaper. In contrast, the Tuniq arrives with a mirror finish, ready for business without any needed funny business.

Another important decision relates to the thermal paste that conducts heat from the CPU case to the heat sink. Despite terrible reviews posted by Newegg users, a YouTube video convinced me that I could get better performance from the TX-3 past, which is supplied with the Tuniq heat sink. The video showed that its superiority results only from applying a thick coating of paste.

Easier said than done! My paste rolled up like a carpet each time I tried to apply a thick coat.

I settled for a thin coat and booted up. The temperatures were terrible, especially on Core #0. I pulled it off, and sure enough, I could see the impression left in the paste by the cooling tubes only on 3 of the 4 quadrants of the case's surface. No wonder Core 0 was running hot. But the other cores also were running too hot.

So I pulled off the Tuniq, scraped off the TX-3, and applied Artic Silver 5, carefully following the online instructions .PDF (http://www.arcticsilver.com/methods.html). Incidentally, its a good idea to do all initial testing on the kitchen table - getting at the CPU once it's buried deep in the bowels of a case is tricky. Also, my first ASRock had 2 bad RAM slots, so I had to send it back (Newegg had another in my hands in just 4 days or so). It's a lot easier to do that if you haven't mounted the MB inside the case.

If you have old Arctic Silver 5, don't hesitate to use it. I used a bit of my 4-year-old 3.5-gram tube for tinting (working the paste into the pores of the metal), and I couldn't notice any difference between it and the new tube.

This time I fired up and got pretty good performance - 3.92 mHz before temps rose to 73 degrees C under 100% load - the max working temperature, according to Intel. Again, my Core 0, at peaks of 73 degrees, was running around 7 degrees hotter than the coolest core - despite the fact that I applied what normally would be a too-thick layer of Arctic Silver paste AND rotated the heat sink 180 degrees. Apparently, the CPU case isn't quite flat (a common malady, from what I've read). I guess the OC fanatics lap their CPU cases to a mirror finish with a thick piece of flat glass for a reason.

The Tuniq is so heavy that I worried it might ruin my motherboard during an earthquake (in California). So I fashioned a little metal plate, put a couple of holes through it into the top lip of the case, and mounted one corner of it with a screw that holds on a top plate on the Tuniq. It was an easy job with the case that I bought (Rosewill Challenger), which puts the motherboard at the very top of the box (the power supply is intended to go on the bottom, but I mounted it with industrial Velcro on top of the case - thereby sending its heat up and away from the computer underneath it). That leaves a nice open space at the bottom of the computer box where I can pop in a hard disk or two as needed for projects.

It's important to get a good power supply that will provide stable voltages under load if you want to avoid crashes during rendering. I found an OCZ 600-watt PS with 80%+ efficiency that I suppose is OK - on sale for around $40.

Memory speed doesn't affect rendering or editing much, so I chose 1600 instead of some of the faster RAM that this motherboard could use. I saw some G.Skill "Eco" low-voltage memory (intended for P55 motherboards) that uses less power than others and runs cooler. I wanted it, but it wasn't on ASRock's list of approved RAM. I emailed G.Skill, and next day they told me it would not work.

But I read some reviews on Newegg who said they were using it on their X58 motherboards; I bought it (). Works great at low voltage, pretty fast according to CPU-Z, runs cool, very stable. It comes in 4-gig sets - appropriate for 8-gig p55 motherboards; but in order to get the ASRock motherboard to run the RAM in DDR3 mode, you'll need either 6 or 12 gigs. I got 12 - probably more than needed; but future-proof (I hope).

I also got a low-power VGA card, that not only produces little heat, is mercifully short and slim (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134087) - $44 after rebate and Newegg $20-off sale. The GT240 chip is not the latest and greatest, but it's about 40% faster than my old GSO9600 (it rates 6.8 on Win7's performance meter, out of a max possible of 7.9).

Once upon a time, the worst part of building a new rig was installing all the programs. I had 110 icons on my desktop, most of them programs. I couldn't face re-installing all of them. Poser alone probably would take at least a day - maybe two - in order to install all the content.

So I first tried Paragon's migration utility. After you create a WinPE bootable disk with it, it will look over your hardware in order to know what drivers are needed for operating system (Win7-64, in my case). The it opens the DVD tray so that you can pop in the motherboard CD, which Paragon then searches for finding the needed drivers. This procedure worked the first time I tried it for my WinXP-32 boot hard disk (I dual boot), but not for Win7.

No matter what I did, each Win7 migration would result in USB ports that would recognize neither a USB keyboard, nor a USB hub. . . even with drivers chosen by DriverWhiz. Terrible!

In desperation, I formatted the solid-state drive (the best upgrade I've done in years), then re-installed the old Win7 OS (I use either Paragon or the free Drive Image XML to save boot disk images and to then reconstitute my failed boot disks). Then I plugged the SSD into the ASRock, but booted to the original Win7 upgrade installation DVD instead of to the SSD. From there, I re-installed Win7 on top of the old Win 7 that was on the SSD.

It worked, BUT: I couldn't activate over the internet. Following a tip from another forum, I used the automated phone activation process and FINALLY, done! If you do this, you MUST tell the machine that you have this OS on only one computer; 10 minutes after I said "one," that little white lie became 100% true (anyone want a nice Q6600 computer with no OS?).

Lot's of programs needed to be re-activated, including Vegas - very fast. And everything worked except the WinXP virtual machine - it totally disappeared. No matter, it's a free install that comes with Win7 Pro. I'll just re-install it and the few apps that I had installed on it - maybe an hour's work, at most; presumably . . .

I also installed a couple of utilities that came with the ASRock - an OC timer, and a power-saving utility called IES. The former is a waste of disk space, but the latter is a delight. I set my CPU for 3.92 mHz (185x21) in the BIOS, then enabled the IES. It reduces the CPU speed to around 2 gHz when not under load, then bumps it back up when needed. Seems to have almost no effect on rendering speed, according the RENDERTEST-2010. The CPU drops from a full-load power while rendering of 124 watts down to around 15 watts when nothing is running. With VMWare Player and a few other apps running, the power for the CPU is only 18.5 watts.

The cost of my computer: around $900 (not counting all the hard disks), plus a couple of days of work on the bench, and hours of reading.

The benefit of all this work? About 2.3 up to 2.7 times as fast as my old computer, depending on what I'm doing (rendering from Vegas, or rendering from Twilight for Sketchup, etc.). Worth it? Probably not yet. Maybe later - if I get a nice 6-core CPU that can be overclocked as much as this 940. Definitely not as beneficial as when I replaced the spinning boot disk with the Intel X-25 SSD - now THAT made a huge difference in my delight while working on the computer (programs load SO much faster, boot time is so much faster).

Comments

UlfLaursen wrote on 8/10/2010, 9:30 PM
Nice, Larry :)

I'm not that much into o'clocking though, so I just bought the 980X for a lot of money, and am building it on a Asus P6T Pro WS board tomorrow.

/Ulf
kkolbo wrote on 8/10/2010, 10:42 PM
I built a Core i7 980X on an Asus P6X58D MD and it screams. I am going to change the cooling to a Corsair H70 when it is available, using H50 now, but for simplicity of overclocking and just running like a bat of of he$$, nothing has been better. I will post the particulars tomorrow when I am not so tired. I am at over 4 gHtz now without trouble and I can tell you it is a dream. With the H70 I expect almost 4,5gHz with headroom to spare. I can tell you that rendering ,mp4 from .h264 is amazing.

I did not work so hard to build my machine. I just built a screamer and loaded everything from scratch. I will tell you that building a machine like that is addictive and a rush. When you see what you can do, it is cool. I now spend nights thinking about how to mod it and make it look as cool as it functions. Once you enter the world of overclocking and custom design, it is hard to step back and think of it as just a computer. My MB failed two days ago and I am missing my baby. Can you tell? New MB arrives tomorrow. I will feel better then.

KK
LReavis wrote on 8/10/2010, 10:45 PM
Both of you are smarter than me. Spending so much time on building the 940 I now believe makes no sense when a much better chip is available - the 980X - even at its current price of around $800 on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-i7-980X-Gulftown-EE-ES-Air-4-5GHz-FREE-SHIPPING-/140430953528?pt=CPUs). Surely it would run circles around my 940 if overclocked - which I'd definitely do, if it were me; I've read that even with the stock cooler, the highest core temp runs around a mere 70 degrees C at 4.05 gHz (the stock cooler is much better than any previous Intel stock cooler). At 4.05 gHz, I'd expect around 40% better performance than my 940 @ 3.92 gHz. The more I think about it, the more tempted I am to pull off the heat sink and pop a 980X in sooner rather than later.

In any case, I hope you'll post your render time on the RENDERTEST-2010 thread (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=722194&Replies=44). It appears that no one with a 980X has done so.
LReavis wrote on 8/11/2010, 11:31 AM
Here are several more tips for those who might want to overclock Bloomfield chips:

Adjusting the values in BIOS varies with the BIOS, and even within the ASRock BIOS, you'll sometimes need to highlight the item with the arrow keys, hit Enter, then maybe type in the value you want; or maybe hold Shift while you hit the + key; or maybe hit enter, then scroll through a list of preset options. If one attempt doesn't work, try something else.

Be sure to get some free utilities to monitor the consequences of your changes. I recommend CPU-Z http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html and RealTemp http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Real-Temp-Download-118624.html.

Here are some suggested values:



1. Adjust the base clock frequency (labeled "BCLK" in the ASRock BIOS) to around 185, starting with lower values, checking temperature and stability under full-load Vegas rendering and with varying multipliers (see next item), and increasing the value incrementally while making sure that core temperatures do not much exceed 73 degrees (I never allow mine to exceed that value for day-to-day working).

2. Adjust the multiplier - generally, odd multiples seem to work better than even multiples. As you can see, I have mine set for 21. Set it as high as you can with no core temperature (see below) exceeding 73 degrees C, if possible, when under full load (100% utilization of all cores - during rendering, etc.).

3. Don't set the CPU voltage higher than 1.375v (you'll probably need to increase this voltage above the default value in order to get stability if you overclock). You increase the voltage on the ASRock by using the arrow keys to highlight the CPU Voltage Value, then holding Shift as you press the + key. There is no easy way to decrease the voltage, so if you go too high, simply load the default values or your last saved default (see below) and start again.

Notice that according to the nominal voltage set in BIOS, I have mine set for 1.43125 volts - which would seem to be dangerously high. However, the true voltage, under no load, actually is only 1.328, as can be seen in the following CPU-Z screen shot where it says "Core Voltage." Under load, it drops down to less than 1.3 volts.



4. If using the G.SKILL ECO RAM, set the voltage for 1.414; if you overclock your RAM, 1.489 also should be safe:



Some X58 motherboards default to 1.65 - perhaps dangerous to this RAM. Worse yet, other RAM sticks require much more voltage. Gamers buy them for squeezing out the best OC speed, but avoid them - too high voltage on the RAM could damage the CPU or motherboard, or at least shorten life expectancy.

5. When you have your computer fast, cool, and stable, save your settings in BIOS:



6. If you use the Tuniq and want to protect your motherboard (even setting it down hard on the floor could result in damage), bolt the tip to the frame of the case, as shown in the following photo:



7. If you want to love working with your computer, get a solid-state drive (SSD) for booting. I saw that Newegg had the Intel X-25 80-gig on sale for about $200 a few days ago. I usually have mine stuffed into one of the drive bays, but I pulled them out for the photo (see lower-right corner of the above photo). An 80-gig disk should be more than large enough if you put your paging file on another disk, set Vegas temporary files to another disk, and get rid of the hiberfil.sys: it's not needed unless you put your computer into hibernate mode (I never do, and my hiberfil.sys was around 8 GB). To banish it, do this:

* Go to Start menu, type “cmd” to open up command prompt
* Type “powercfg.exe -h off” [make sure you are an Administrator]
* ENTER
* Type “exit”
* ENTER

RESTART YOUR PC and you are all set

After restart you should be able to see more free space on your hard drive.

source via [jonathanhu.com]

8. If you edit HD 60fps progressive and use Cineform, ordinary hard disks probably won't be fast enough. You can get a nice little RAID box for 2 hard disk on ebay for $26, incl. shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220484834327&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I connected it with the red SATA cable that disappears to the left of the photo above (the RAID box itself is not shown) - that cable has an ordinary SATA connection on one end, and an eSATA plug on the other; or, with the ASRock, you could use an ordinary eSATA cable and connect it to the front or rear eSATA port if you don't want the cable inside the box.

9. For fun, you might want to watch IES:



10. If you use the ASRock MB, you'll find that the passive heat sink just below the CPU gets pretty hot (I measured 127 degrees F with an IR thermometer pointed at its surface - under no load). So I taped together a pair of tiny fans and taped the pair to the side of the Tuniq (there is no airflow through that side of the Tuniq). You can see them just below the Tuniq if you look closely.

If you do the above, you should be able to get up to a 50% increase in speed from your CPU without significantly shortening its life or the life of your motherboard.
kkolbo wrote on 8/11/2010, 12:44 PM

It looks like you have a lot of fun with your beast. The whole thing can be an intoxicating puzzle.

My replacement motherboard did not arrive today. Weather grounded it in KY UPS said. I am sad. I also can not give the detail I would like unless I can fire it up.

My system is much simpler. I have an Asus P6X58D Premium MB. I am using a Core i7 980X processor, 12 gig of Corsair 1600mhz DDR3 RAM. I have not OC'ed the RAM. The 980X memory controller does not support 6 sticks of DDR3 above 1333. I am also running at 9 latency even though the sticks are 8's.

The MB is mounted in a Corsair 800D case. I use the Corsair H50 cooler on it. The stock Intel cooler is the best they have shipped, but OC'ed it can't quite handle it. The H50 keeps me below the Intel spec of 68C at 4.0 gHtz. Using Prime95 I start to bust the temp threshold at about 45 minutes. Under render conditions I can run all day. Render only uses 99.6% of the CPU. When I get the new H70 cooler I expect to see 4.5gHtz. I may be too optimistic. Guys running 4.5 are letting it run at 72C and I am a sissy that way. I have seen that processor hit 85C very quickly before the thermal paste set, and I was having an anxiety attack. $1000 CPUs are too expensive to burn up for fun.

The key to safely overclocking the 32nm CPU's like the 980X is to be stingy with the voltage. They do not need much. It just turns to heat. At 32nm it turns to heat very fast. I was at 4.0gHtz just by increasing the multiplier and adding a 10mV relative tops. The MB has the ability to adjust the voltage relative across the turbo boost range. That way I can get top speed with all core pegged, not just when it has a couple of cores active. When I added 25mv, the heat was too much. 25mv is nothing for most OC's, but the 32nm CPUs just turn it to heat.

I use a 2tb SATA 3 drive for the system drive and apps load like bunnies. All of my other storage is SATA 2 right now. The Corsair case has 4 hot swap bays built in. I haven't had a chance to try the USB3 yet, but I am looking forward to the speed.

As you can tell, it is a much less sophisticated set up. When I have the replacement MB and the thermal paste has set, I will run the render test for you. The old render test was only 27 secs with other apps running :)

KK
LReavis wrote on 8/11/2010, 3:06 PM
I almost bought the H50 myself. However, some reviews showed the Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme to give superior results if no lapping of the H50 base was done.

The new H70 should outperform the Tuniq. Nevertheless, I'm still a bit leery of it, for I've read several users of the Corsair water coolers who have ruined their motherboards because of leaks. Maybe the H70 reduces the risk - time will tell.
CorTed wrote on 8/11/2010, 3:57 PM
Looks like a nice system.
I used the ASUS P6X58D MB along with a i7-920 humming along at 3.5Ghz and 12Gig of RAM.
I also found that for some reason one core of the 4 always seems to be running hotter than the other 3, not sure if there is more going on in the first core. I am running at approx 74Deg C when rendering and running all cores at 99- 100%. I am using the Thermaltake Contac 29 CPU cooler. Was a bear to install but seems to do the trick.

This board has the ability to use USB3, would like to know when we will see any cameras or other devices that actually will be using this speedy port.

btw, I like your way of mounting the various harddrives right onto the wood.... is that the bottom of your desk?

Ted
LReavis wrote on 8/11/2010, 5:00 PM
"btw, I like your way of mounting the various harddrives right onto the wood.... is that the bottom of your desk?"

no - it's a shear wall - engineered to meet earthquake standards, required by code for all modern houses in most parts of California. Usually it's 3/4" plywood, with lots of nails and glue onto the studs. Prefab shear walls can be purchased for those who don't want to pay engineering fees, and some local codes have prescribed details to also avoid engineering fees.

So I mount my work drives mostly onto the shear wall (except for the RAID box), with my backup drives inside of heavy fireproof boxes on the floor. I keep the lids down on them, use WD green drives to keep the heat down, and have a fan in the box to help dissipate the heat.

The computer also is secured to the firewall with heavy hooks, at least one of which, as I recall, goes directly into a stud. Hopefully, these precautions will see me through any disaster that might hit (except senility - coming fast, in my mid-70s, it seems to me).

Regarding USB3, I ordered a USB>SATA cable w/ power brick from China; should be here any day. If it's good, I may use a pair to hook up my backup drives in the box on the floor.
kkolbo wrote on 8/11/2010, 11:21 PM
I also found that for some reason one core of the 4 always seems to be running hotter than the other 3,

A total noob in this area is responding...

From my research, this is actually quite normal. 5-8C is the normal difference. It is core 4 out of 6 that is my hot one. When Intel measures the thermal threshold for the CPU, they use the average of the cores. I spent a lot of time trying to wrap my head around all of the different heat specs and names. There is the CPU case, there are the core temps and there is the average of the cores. None of them is measured as absolute temps but as differences from a number stored int he CPU. Arrg. I just don't want to melt my CPU or reduce its life expectancy. I don't need to know how to make it play a violin.

BTW, trying to find out what temp is harmful for a particular model of CPU is close to impossible from the docs or the web. The web will tell you as high as 100C as a spike is OK. The docs get you lost. I finally found an Intel engineer who looked up the specs on the 980X and explained that 68C was their design point for the average of the cores. He also explained that one core will almost always run 5-8C hotter than the rest. He said that if I keep my CPU so that the one core was around 70-72C and the rest under 66C, my CPU would be very happy. (I keep my hottest one under 70C on render.) He explained that if I do not give it too much voltage, it will try to throttle back if it gets too hot. The final point he explained to me was that all CPU's will behave differently. Not just models, but individual chips. (he lost me on the why) Some chips will need more voltage to OC, some will run stable with less. Some will be harder to keep cool and some will play nice. In the end, that makes the rated speed a safety point. That is why OCing is possible and not a bad thing.

The guys at Corsair explained how memory gets its speed rating and what that means. It explains the reason for the price difference, but all of that is for another time.

I had fun researching and talking to engineers before my first overclock. I know very little about it all. Just enough to be dangerous. Do NOT take my statements as fact or good advice in this area. Always consult someone who really knows. I may have misinterpreted what I heard or read. I may be completely wrong. I would welcome correction on anything I have said above.

Some day I am going to buy a cheaper unclocked CPU and spin it up until it blows just to see what the limits look like.
ushere wrote on 8/12/2010, 3:08 AM
while i appreciate the 'fun' aspect of overclocking, eg gaming, etc., and have done so with some of my 'old' pc for fun, i cannot see any really significant advantage it gives on a 'working' nle, ie one that's processing commercial work. even when o'cd to a minimal level the idiosyncrasies and such like instability it might engender far outweigh the reliability of a normal clock speed - as i wrote, on a pro pc.

if i want more speed then i would invest in a faster cpu, the cost of which would be covered by the work being done.

that said, a few more fps in a shooter don't go amiss ;-)
kkolbo wrote on 8/12/2010, 7:39 AM
@ushere,

I agree that in a house full of work waiting to go out, dependability is paramount.

In my case, I have the fastest processor currently available.

Overclocked 980X's are really quite commonplace because they, like the MB I am using, were designed specifically for overclocking. Right now there are at least two companies that are selling turnkey 980X systems OC'ed to 4.5gHtz. The key is to do so properly. Done right and tested properly, my system has zero stability issues. And yes, it is fun. Then again, this has been vacation and there isn't a bunch of worked stacked up waiting to edit.

If I were running a post house, I assure you that I would load it with stock systems built by manufacturers that back their systems. Quality, dependability, and service, are required to deliver the work and make a profit. That is why I would not use an iMac :)

This is a hobbyist thread. Vegas Pro has many hobbyist as well as pro. I have the luxury of being both. I am paid to explore and play. I also have a backup systems available :) I will say that from my experience, the system specs that I have, OC'ed the way I have done, would be a solid machine for any Vegas Pro editor. I would build it, sell it, and back it without hesitation. All the stars aligned and this machine is a beauty.

LReavis wrote on 8/12/2010, 9:23 AM
I had my Q6600 overclocked from it's default 2.4 gHz to 2.7 gHz or more for all the years that I used it and I never had stability problems. During the first year or so, I ran it at 3+ gHz and only slowed it to 2.7 when I noticed temps were running a bit higher than when new (dust on the heat sink?). Still it was stable, but I was worried about the slow migration of atoms on the chip that might degrade performance eventually because of the high temperature.

Still, since I started using Vegas 8C for editing and 9x-64 for rendering, almost never a quirk of any sort. Months would go by without noticing anything unexpected. That's why I started this thread with a remark about my happy experience with the Q6600.

I used something - maybe IntelBurnTest (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197835) or maybe Prime95 overnight (as I recall - I was pretty sleepy that evening and maybe ran it for a shorter period) on the faulty MB that I received recently to test stability with hottest core running at around 73 degrees, and it proved to be totally stable. I haven't yet done so with this MB, but I'd be very surprised to discover any instabilities, either with the test or with day-to-day work with Vegas.

Having said that, it certainly is true that overclocking has the potential to introduce instability; certainly, going beyond the rather modest 4 gHz point gets one into territory that is less explored. In any case, I'll post back here if any instability or quirks are observed.
srode wrote on 8/12/2010, 3:58 PM
I've had my Q6700 overclocked from 2.66 to 3.33 and haven't had any instability problems. Ran a good test of temperature to ensure I didn't have a heat problem. Loaded the 4 cores by running n! 999999999 on 4 of the windows scientific calculators for a long time with core temp and it maxed out about 55 average on the cores plus or minus 2 between them. Can't do it with Win7 for some reason but it worked fine on XP for the test.
LReavis wrote on 8/12/2010, 7:04 PM
"I will tell you that building a machine like that is addictive and a rush."



I know the feeling - for years I built electronics for fun and profit. The photo is of a transmitter that I designed in 1956 and built over the next year (the kid is me in 1960). Even in the 90s I when I was designing and building logic circuits to automate production machinery in a factory, I got a charge the first time I watched a huge machine going through the steps by itself that previously required constant human guidance.

That was then. I'm envious - good rig, but mostly I'm envious of your enjoyment. For me, the thrill is gone - too many trips through the loop, I suppose. I only do this when I think I can speed up my work enough to justify the tedium of putting it all together and debugging it. That's why I'm just a bit disappointed - I'm not sure I can yet justify the time cost.
kkolbo wrote on 8/13/2010, 1:02 AM
While I do enjoy the overclocking and building experience, it is not for the faint of heart. Today is a good example. I had blown an ASUS MB. I had an RMA for it. I damaged it removing the cooler from it voiding the warranty. $300 to order a new one. The new one arrived today (a week later using overnight shipping). Installed it. It would only see 8gig of RAM instead of the 12gig installed and seen by the previous one.

A long call troubleshooting with Asus yielded no results. That led me to call my trusted support folks at Corsair. It took about 4 minutes and it was tracked down to a bad memory channel on the motherboard or CPU, but Corsair felt it was most likely the MB, especially since the CPU had proven to be fine before changing the MB. I called Asus back and I identified the problem as a bad memory channel to them. The tech support did not want to test anything, he just said that it couldn't be the motherboard, it had to be the memory controller on the CPU. He would not listen to anything else. I had to go and buy a $300 new CPU to prove the point. Sure enough with a brand new CPU, the memory channel did not work. Finally Asus agreed to RMA it.

The nice thing about a turn key system is the builder has to go through all of that and not you. BUt, if you want something extra, you have to do it yourself.

Tonight I am playing with overclocking a Core i7 930. I OC'ed the memory very easily. Now we will see what we can get out of the 930 :)

KK

Update: Without more exotic cooling, I was able to get 3.65gHtz - 3.8gHtz sustained with it. For no fancy tweaking, that is OK out of a 2.8gHtz CPU. I will add pictures in the morning.
Here are the comparison times for the same render.
Config A-- Core i7 980X (3.4gHtz) OC'ed to 4gHtz with 12 gig RAM -- 27 Seconds
Config B-- Core i7 930 (2.8gHtz) OC'ed to 3.8gHtz with 8 gig RAM -- 52 Seconds

Same MB etc...

Surprisingly HD h.264 preview playback was rock solid 29.97 even with transitions with the i7 930. It may have been the memory overclock that did it, but it is easy to work with in that config.
DavidMcKnight wrote on 8/13/2010, 7:03 AM
I enjoy building our systems here and I'm confident that while we probably spend a little more per system than say a Dell, I get exactly the parts I want. But I don't OC. As said it is NOT for the faint of heart and I have enough stress in my life already!
CorTed wrote on 8/13/2010, 9:10 AM
KK,

There seems to be a serious problem with the X58 boards where they are not registering the correct amount of memory that is installed when you have more than 6GB installed.
I have the same problem with my P6X58D board which I installed 12 Gig of Corsair memory, but every now an then it only shows 8GB.

I have not pinpointed the real cause, but I have passed the time for RMA on the board so It looks as if I have to live with this issue.....

Ted
LReavis wrote on 8/13/2010, 9:39 AM
"The nice thing about a turn key system is the builder has to go through all of that and not you."

one reason that I buy most of my components from Newegg is that most always you can get almost instant RMAs for defective components. When I discovered that my MB was seeing only 8 GB RAM instead of the 12 that I had installed, I went to My Account on the Newegg site and filled out the form and almost instantly I had an RMA number in my GMAIL inbox - pretty obviously, without even any human having read what I wrote for the reason why I was requesting a replacement (and this was late at night!).

I've never ever had a hassle from Newegg (within their 30 warranty period) when merely requesting a replacement. I presume that they replace a certain number of perfectly good components with that policy, but it sure is sweet for us buyers. And they're fast - usually they have the replacement in my hands within 4 working days, sometimes fewer.

I've had almost as pleasant experience with Corsair. Once one of my memory sticks went bad more than a year after I bought it. Being part of a matched set, I got an RMA from Corsair to replace the set, no questions asked. It took longer, but it only cost me the postage. This time I went with G.Skill, which, from the reviews I've read on Newegg, seems to have an equally generous policy.

I must admit, I've also had good luck with Dell. My wife bought a big floor-standing color laser printer a couple of years ago, refurbished, cheap. Some quirk prevented top-quality printing, or some such. Dell came to our home and worked on it. Still wasn't quite right. So they brought out a replacement in a brand-new box - and we didn't have to argue with them once. And they came fast. Never had a problem since.

It really makes a difference where you buy and the brand that you buy.

As for expense, I have yet to find a computer configured like mine (12 GB RAM, etc.) for $900. Maybe they're around, but the cheapest I could find was over $200 more expensive. But I bid my time and only bought bargains, starting with the bargain CPU.

And being able to pick and choose components makes a big difference. Wanting to do the environment a favor, this time I took pains to get components that draw little power. The VGA card, the IES software available for the ASRock, the 80%+ PS, the ECO RAM - it all adds up to a (literally) cool computer.

I own a Kil-a-watt meter, which I put in a safe place after measuring the power drawn by my Q6600. As often is the case, now I can't remember where that "safe place" is - I should have left it where I always keep it. Anyway, it'll turn up, and I'm eager to see how this computer compares with the Q6600. With the local utility company nearly doubling rates for daytime residential power in the future, I'm guessing that much of the cost of building this new computer will be defrayed in the reduced monthly power bill.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/13/2010, 10:02 AM
Just a couple of years ago, the best dual-core processors rendered video 2.5 - 3 times slower than today's i-series.

So I feel compelled to ask -- why overclock?
Is it a testosterone thing?
LReavis wrote on 8/13/2010, 10:41 AM
"So I feel compelled to ask -- why overclock?"

Good question. In my case, the straw that broke the camel's back was a 17-hour render that absorbed 100% of my 4 cores, according to the Performance tab of Task Manager. I still could browse the web and do a few other simple tasks, but even editing in Vegas was so choppy that I couldn't concentrate easily.

That particular render was for a very short animation (around 30 seconds of finished video, as I recall - ray tracing, especially with the transparent window glass, translucent drinking glasses, several light sources, etc., in that complex scene - takes a lot of CPU time); but some of my complex projects in Vegas take as long or longer to render.

Being unable to do serious work on my computer for 17 hours - and it happened often - was starting to put a serious cramp in my productivity.
kkolbo wrote on 8/13/2010, 12:51 PM
There seems to be a serious problem with the X58 boards where they are not registering the correct amount of memory that is installed when you have more than 6GB installed.

Actually, it could be motherboard or a CPU issue, unless the MB has a defect. Intel published that certain CPU models in DDR3 mode could not support more than 4 sticks of memory at certain speeds. Some memory and some MB's overcame that limitation. I had to be very careful in choosing qualified memory for my motherboard/CPU combo. Actually that is part of building now. Every part I used was investigated to ensure that it was a supported brand and model to play nice with all of the other parts. That is why so much of my system has the Corsair name on it. They were very good about listing which models played well with other folks specific parts.

My problem right now is clearly a defective memory channel though. :(

So I feel compelled to ask -- why overclock?

I guess that might be part of it. Kind of like climbing a mountain or putting a four barrel Holley in your Chevelle. It is also like taking the time to light a scene carefully, or catch all the little nuances when mixing a soundtrack. If I am going to build a system, I like to use quality parts and get the best out of them. The again, cutting an hour or two off of a three hour render is nice too. Overclocking the i7 930 made it 40% faster with just a couple of key strokes. I think that is valuable.

I was amazed. By tweaking my i7 930 config, I was able to get HD .h264 editing like it was HDV. I guess it was bottle necking in the memory, because when I overclock that, it was a whole new ballgame. That is my biggest testimony for learning how to overclock.

A few years ago, overclocking was black magic. Now parts are built and tested for their overclocking ability. My 908X processor is "unclocked" by intel so that you can go for broke based on your cooling. My motherboard handles most of the adjustments for overclocking automatically. While the Intel structure is for 1066mHtz for memory, memory is now rated for 1066,1333,1600,1800, 2000, so that you know what that stick will tolerate.

When they took away carburetors and spinning distributors away from us, we had to start playing with something :)

KK
LReavis wrote on 8/13/2010, 2:47 PM
hopeless; we're all hopeless (as I told my son in law - I secretly admire that kind of drive)
ritsmer wrote on 8/14/2010, 12:42 AM
LReavis wrote: I still could browse the web and do a few other simple tasks, but even editing in Vegas was so choppy that I couldn't concentrate easily.

Next time try to go into Windows Task Manager / Processes / right click on vegasxx.exe / and set priority to below normal.

After this the rendering hums along in background while you can edit etc without really noticing.
kkolbo wrote on 8/14/2010, 1:51 AM
Next time try to go into Windows Task Manager / Processes / right click on vegasxx.exe / and set priority to below normal.

Oh but it is such a good excuse to build a new system. ;-p

KK