ONKYO joins format war with new HD DVD player

blink3times wrote on 8/9/2007, 6:17 PM
ONKYO Introduces Its First HD DVD Player, Including High-Bit-Rate and Lossless Audio Streaming via HDMI 1.3a

UPPER SADDLE RIVER, NJ (8/9/07) – ONKYO USA has announced the launch of its first HD-DVD player, the DV-HD805. This player has been introduced to realize the potential of high-definition HD DVD content. It is also one of the first HD DVD players to take advantage of high-bit-rate audio streaming via HDMI version 1.3a. The DV-HD805 will be available in the fall of 2007.

The DV-HD805 is designed to partner with Onkyo's 2007 A/V receiver line-up. Both the HD DVD player and the A/V receivers feature HDMI version 1.3a connections, making the combination of these components the perfect platform for high-definition 1080p video images. It also nicely complements Onkyo’s A/V receivers by streaming of the new lossless surround sound formats, Dolby® TrueHD and DTS®-HD Master Audio, as well as two "lossy" formats, Dolby® Digital Plus and DTS®-HD High Resolution Audio.

The Onkyo DV-HD805 has the capability to support different frame rates, including playback at 24 frames per second, which is the native frame rate of the original sources for most HD content. This ensures that the user will be able to experience the playback of films recorded to HD DVD with the smoothest, most stable reproduction possible.

HDMI version 1.3a allows the DV-HD805 to offer the full potential of high-definition 1080p video (the native resolution of HD DVD discs). Furthermore, HDMI version 1.3a enables Deep Color™ technology to improve color tones and achieve finer color gradation. Also, when connected with the new Onkyo HDMI version 1.3a A/V receivers, the DV-HD805 is capable of high-bit-rate audio streaming output. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio surround sound codecs enable bit-for-bit reproduction of the studio master meaning that this player is capable of the highest clarity and most advanced realism from movie soundtracks. It also has the capability to provide Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio bit stream data.

HD DVD specifications allow for the inclusion of web-enabled network connectivity to develop new and unique content such as additional materials and bonus features. In addition to downloading content, HD DVD users also have the ability to upload content and interact with providers, to participate in interactive polls for example. Compared to other media formats, HD DVD is advanced in this capacity. The DV-HD805 includes an Ethernet port to allow users access to these capabilities, as well as enable the user to easily download any future firmware updates.

Recognized as the leading video processing technology in the home theater industry, the DV-HD805's onboard HQV Reon VX video processing chipset provides exceptionally precise video scaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p). When used with the standard-definition DVD format, HQV Reon VX enables viewers to enjoy superior video quality at the native resolution of the connected high-definition display. HQV Reon VX processing also eliminates or substantially reduces video noise for improved video reproduction.

The DV-HD805 will be available in the fall of 2007 at a suggested retail price of $899.

Onkyo, which takes its name from the Japanese "On" meaning 'sound' and "Kyo" meaning 'harmony,' has been producing precision audio components for over a half-century. The company's philosophy is to deliver products that are superbly designed and built to a consistently outstanding standard of excellence. Today, Onkyo is at the forefront of the home theater and digital revolutions. For more information about this and other fine Onkyo products, visit www.onkyousa.com or call 800-229-1687.

# # #

HDMI, the HDMI logo and High-Definition Multimedia Interface are trademarks or registered trademarks of HDMI Licensing LLC.

HD DVD and DVD are trademarks of DVD Format/Logo Licensing, LLC.

Dolby, Pro Logic, Surround EX, TrueHD and the double-D symbol are trademarks of Dolby Laboratories.

DTS is a registered trademark & the DTS logos and Symbol are trademarks of DTS, Inc.

HQV is a registered trademark of Silicon Optix.

Comments

Laurence wrote on 8/9/2007, 8:08 PM
$899! Boy that is expensive.
blink3times wrote on 8/9/2007, 8:28 PM
Yeah... I agree. But my guess is that it's high because it's new and it will eventually fall into line.

It is quite interesting though... it's a pretty clear indication that HD DVD is alive and well.
Laurence wrote on 8/9/2007, 8:44 PM
Well there are a couple of things that keep HD DVD relevant:

1/ It's specifications allow HD content on regular DVD+-Rs.

2/ There are no regions enabled like there are on Bluray and regular DVDs. This means that people outside of the US can buy and play American HD DVDs without the zone limitations that they would run into if they went with Bluray.

3/ The hardware is cheaper.

Lots of people seem to think that if HD DVD was to go away and Bluray was to become the sole available HD disc format, that the sales of HD DVD would become Bluray sales and that without the market confusion, overall HD hardware sales would rise. I don't think that that is the case. Here are some reasons why I feel this way.

1/ Bluray isn't a viable low cost HD delivery system yet. I can make an HD DVD compatible disc for as little as thirty cents in media. It costs me at least $14 a disc for BD-R, and even then it won't play back in many Bluray players. This is my main reason for having an HD player, and Bluray simply isn't ready yet.

2/ If I was living in Europe or South America, I could order HD DVD discs and play them back without zone problems. If the HD DVD format dies, all these sales will die with it.

3/ $250 or so for some entertainment hardware is quite a stretch for most people. $450 or more is simply out of the question. If there was no cheaper option, many people would just stick with DVDs.

That's why I think the idea of an ultra-expensive HD DVD player like the Onkyo model is a little silly. Kind of like a souped up Kia or something. It just doesn't make sense.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 8/9/2007, 9:44 PM
that sounds cool but I thought HDMI was just the cable going from Device A to Device B. it's software too?

now even plugs are copyrighted! It's getting sooooo complex! I miss the good old days of "plug in, turn on, insert media." Worked great from 8-tracks to DVD players, don't add extra things to the mix! :)
Chienworks wrote on 8/10/2007, 4:58 AM
I agree with the pricing being a bit silly. I didn't buy a CD player until i could get one for under $70. I didn't buy a DVD player until i could get one for under $70. It simple wasn't worth it to me. I won't buy an HD player until i can get one for under $100 (i'll be a tad more generous since the technology level is substantially higher). If that means no HD in my home for another 5 years ... well, i won't miss it.

If it's about entertainment, well then, VHS on my 20" TV is very entertaining. Heck, DivX at 300kbps on my Archos 404 with a 3" screen is very entertaining!

If it's about the technology and the resolution, then that's kinda missing the point of being entertained.
Laurence wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:13 AM
I just couldn't wait for an HD disc player. As a video guy, continuing to work with the quarter resolution of SD compared to HDV just didn't cut it. I felt like I was watching my final projects on a webcam.
blink3times wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:26 AM
That's exactly what these companies count on and are looking at with these high initial prices... the early adopters that see stars in their eyes and don't give a crap what price they have to pay to put those stars in their hands.... and I'm just as guilty. I remember when the HC3 hi def cam came out... I payed $2000 for it the day after it hit the stores.

Once they catch and hook the crazy's and there are no more like us... then the prices go down.

Interesting though.... obviously Onkyo thinks they can get $899. HD DVD can't be doing that bad!
Laurence wrote on 8/10/2007, 8:13 AM
I remember buying the original 1x DVD-R burner. I believe it was a Pioneer. Well it was $999 and a "Pioneer" both in both senses of the word. It was slow, picky about media, and nowhere near as good as what you can buy now for under forty dollars. I gave it away eventually, and soon after that, I was told that it died completely.

That experience is what keeps me away from doing exactly the same thing all over again with Bluray or HD DVD. I have no doubt that when the dust clears, I will have a nice reasonably priced super fast combo Bluray/HD DVD burner at some point in the future. However, I really don't want to buy an expensive burner right now that will be next to useless in a year and a half. For now, the 3x DVD (HD DVD format on DVD+-R) is letting me at least watch my content during the interm.

To be honest though, I have a little 8 gig thumbdrive that I bought for $79. The easiest way for me to watch my projects in the living room in HD is to copy an m2t file to that and plug it into one of my PS3 USB ports.
4eyes wrote on 8/10/2007, 8:24 AM
1/ Bluray isn't a viable low cost HD delivery system yet. I can make an HD DVD compatible disc for as little as thirty cents in media. It costs me at least $14 a disc for BD-R, and even then it won't play back in many Bluray players. This is my main reason for having an HD player, and Bluray simply isn't ready yet.I think they could care less about making home made videos, otherwise the unit(s) (Blu-Ray & HD-DVD Players) would let you play disc's in datamode and be uPnP enabled on the network connection. Maybe licensing issues.
Burning regular dvd's is nice to play in these units, but for the price one would think they would have more features.
To me those prices will help HD-DVD fall behind.

zstevek wrote on 8/10/2007, 9:51 AM
"1/ Bluray isn't a viable low cost HD delivery system yet. I can make an HD DVD compatible disc for as little as thirty cents in media. It costs me at least $14 a disc for BD-R, and even then it won't play back in many Bluray players. This is my main reason for having an HD player, and Bluray simply isn't ready yet.

If this is true....

Why are newer Blue Ray discs cheaper thatn HD-DVD's? For example; the new movie "300" cost $29.99 on Blue Ray, while the HD-DVD version is $34.99.
JJKizak wrote on 8/10/2007, 10:08 AM
He is talking about writing HD-DVD to a standard DVD-R disc which is 30 cents.
JJK
blink3times wrote on 8/10/2007, 11:11 AM
"Why are newer Blue Ray discs cheaper thatn HD-DVD's? For example; the new movie "300" cost $29.99 on Blue Ray, while the HD-DVD version is $34.99."
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Blu ray's prices are cheaper because at present they don't offer PIP, menu systems...etc. HD DVD does... they have to do something to offset the difference.

Read this:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8228
blink3times wrote on 8/10/2007, 11:19 AM
"To me those prices will help HD-DVD fall behind."
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Yes... with Samsung getting their ducks in a row to go Dual player, and Onkyo signing on to produce HD DVD players...... it sure sounds like HD DVD is falling behind.
fwtep wrote on 8/10/2007, 12:46 PM
Months ago the HD-DVD crowd was saying that the $200 (or $250, or whatever) HD-DVD players were going to be the end of BR, or at least have a huge impact on it. But BR player, and especially disc sales haven't even been slightly dented. So a new, expensive player from Onkyo doesn't exactly make me fear for BR's future. Yippeee, that makes it, what, two companies that make HD now, versus half a dozen or so that make BR?

Also, it's worth noting that despite all of the gee-whiz cool stuff that's on the HD disc for "300" but NOT on the BR version, the BR version is still outselling it by almost 2 to 1. So the claims that the cool features of HD are going to help it win don't seem to be borne out by the real-world results.

In fact, so far none of the "HD will win because..." prophecies have come true. Yes, I know it's not actually over yet, but none of those things have even impacted BR's lead at all. So forgive me if I remain completely skeptical (or sceptical for you Brits out there) of the current chest-beating from the HD-DVD camp.

And by the way, HD-DVD supports region coding too, as far as I'm aware.the fact that discs don't currently use them (supposedly-- again, I don't have any so I don't know) doesn't mean they never will. It's possible that they don't use it now because the sales are so low that they want to sell as many as possible, but if HD-DVD were to win the format war and started selling as much as regular DVDs they might start using the coding. I can certainly see coding being used for some new releases, since, for example, you don't want non-coded discs from the US to be available in a country where the theatrical release hasn't happened yet. (Yes, I'm well aware that some people will find a way around that, but that's a lot different than if they were readily and legally available.)
Chienworks wrote on 8/10/2007, 1:44 PM
It could also be that people buy the BD version because they have (*gasp*) a BD player and not an HD-DVD player. Wow, who wouldathunkit?

Back in the day i bought cassettes instead of 8 tracks not because what i wanted was available on cassettes or cheaper or better quality, but simply because i didn't have an 8 track player to play 8 track tapes on.

I'm also willing to take a long shot and suggest that many people bought BD players instead of HD-DVD players because
- it was what was on the shelf under the sign that said "HD"
- it was on sale
- it was part of another device
- it was the first one they saw in their price range
- it was at Wal*Mart / Target / K-Mart / etc.
- they see a lot of movies they want to watch that said "BD"
and that very few of them bought it because it was a better format. And now that they have it, why on earth would they buy HD-DVDs that don't play in their player?

In other words, i'm postulating that BD may be ahead because it got lucky, not for any technical reasons.
blink3times wrote on 8/10/2007, 2:27 PM
"In fact, so far none of the "HD will win because..." prophecies have come true. Yes, I know it's not actually over yet, but none of those things have even impacted BR's lead at all. So forgive me if I remain completely skeptical (or sceptical for you Brits out there) of the current chest-beating from the HD-DVD camp."
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"lead"??? "
over yet"????

I hate to break it to you but it hasn't even really started yet. Most of the population has no real interest in EITHER format. Hi Definition is simply not selling very well at all. Br is a little bit ahead here and HD DVD is a little bit ahead there.... fact is neither one of them have gone too far at all. There was no winner yesterday... there is no winner today... and there won't be for a very long time.

On the other hand, no body joins a losing team, so why is Onkyo signing up to sell HD DVD players? Why is Samsung going dual player? Doesn't seem to me that BR is "winning" too much.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Samsung/Hardware/More_Details_in_on_Samsungs_Dual-Format_Blu-ray/HD_DVD_Player/743
nolonemo wrote on 8/10/2007, 4:40 PM
I'd love to have snazzy hi-def movies in my living room, but until the players drop below $150, I don't give a s**t which format is "winning."
zstevek wrote on 8/10/2007, 6:14 PM
Does anyone know how much HD-DVD rewriteable cost? Are they comparable to Blue-Ray?

This in my opinion will be the make or break it point for either format. Basically if the prices are similar people will buy the BR, simply because they want more for their money.

I could be wrong, but I heard the maximum size of BR is up to 200GB (theoretical)! If this is true, there is no way for HD-DVD to compete in the long run.

I remember when I thought 650 MB on standard CD-R's was incredible, now it is obsolete thanks to DVD-R. The same will hold true for HD-DVD IMO, unless they can compete with BR's data storage capacity.
Laurence wrote on 8/10/2007, 6:32 PM
The HD DVD version is actually a combo format disc with HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. Usually those run a couple of dollars more than discs that are in the HD DVD. Yes I know that this makes it even more confusing.

Keep in mind, I didn't buy my HD DVD player to play back blockbuster movies, I bought it to play back my own projects. The fact that it can also play back major releases is kind of a bonus.
fwtep wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:07 PM
As soon as Universal adopts BR, which I expect we'll hear announced by early next year (I think they'll wait and see how Christmas does), it'll be over. Why get HD when several major studios don't support it instead of BR which all studios (at that point) support?

It's not only started, but we're only five months away from seeing who's going to win. I'm not saying that the loser will magically disappear over night, but the winner will be clear-- if it isn't already. Why is Onkyo doing a player? Who knows? Do we know they have no plans for a BluRay player?

As for Samsung, it makes sense for them. Well, until Universal throws in the towel and supports BR. At that point there's no advantage to HD and it will fade away. Yeah yeah, HD has this and that great gizmo and PiP, etc. Well, if that mattered to the public the discs would be selling, wouldn't they? People like to think they're average, but the truth is we're not the average video disc consumer-- we're more toward the "geek" side (after all, we're posting to a video editing forum). Don't forget that the REAL public is made up of people who couldn't figure out how to set the time on their VCRs; definitely not the kind of people who are clamoring for JAVA-enhanced movies. :-)
blink3times wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:14 PM
"I could be wrong, but I heard the maximum size of BR is up to 200GB (theoretical)! If this is true, there is no way for HD-DVD to compete in the long run."

Not true.

HD DVD can match that. In fact BOTH formats have shown an increase in size simply by adding more layers, but at some point it starts to get a bit silly. I don't know about you, but there is no way in the world that I would trust ANY optical disk with 50, 100, 200 gigs of data. One scratch in the wrong place and it's ball game over.

HDD's are simply faster, and more reliable at storing large volumes of info... and they are not that expensive anymore
blink3times wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:20 PM
"It's not only started, but we're only five months away from seeing who's going to win. I'm not saying that the loser will magically disappear over night, but the winner will be clear-- if it isn't already.?"
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What a pile of TOTAL rubbish.... Do you have ANYTHING in terms of proof to support this FUD?

Gawd... I'm on the floor laughing here!!
zstevek wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:35 PM
"HD DVD can match that. In fact BOTH formats have shown an increase in size simply by adding more layers, but at some point it starts to get a bit silly."

HD-DVD: 15 GB / layer, to fit 200GB on a HD-DVD would require 14 layers.

Blue-Ray: 25 GB / layer, 200GB = 8 layers.

The capacity will always favor the Blue-Ray on a layer by layer basis.
MozartMan wrote on 8/10/2007, 7:41 PM
@blink3times
HD DVD can match that.
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HD DVD can match what???????????????????????

50GB BD disk with the vaporware TL 51GB that will never see the life?