I'm still new, also. One advantage to using a small clip would be if you've done some really "fancy" editing work and you have more "fancy" editing to do on the balance of the file.

Occasionally, I've worked on a section of video to manipulate timing or other FX over several tracks and have "labored" at length to get it just right, only to goof everything up inadvertently at a later time fussing around somewhere else in the project. I know I could lock those events together as a Group (and I probably did). Bottom line, I messed those elements up after having gotten them "just right" never to get them "just right" again.

That sort of thing doesn't happen to me as often anymore as I've ramped up my familiarity with VV, but, if you've had the experience, then, one way to assure that you don't lose those little gems is to rendering them to avi. Then, they are permanently "locked", and you can incorporate that section into any project (one of the beauty's of VV . . . it doesn't really care if the clip is from a capture or a rendering or a clip from some other program . . . it's very flexible in what it allows you to drag onto the timeline).

Additionally, once rendered, that little section does not get re-rendered when incorporated into (or re-incorporated into) a final project unless you apply some new FX to that section (another one of VV's strengths).

Just my couple of pennies.

Caruso

Caruso,
I would have never figured you for a beginner. I read your post all the time. Thanks for making things simple for me.
I agree that I also need the security of rendering that just right put together.
I have what will be a twenty min video that I am getting to render. The longest ever for me. I thought it might be faster to use the previous renders maybe avoiding a crash.
Thanks again

Once a beginner, always a beginner. You don't say what file system you are using (FAT 16 or FAT 32 . . . with Windows 9x or Windows ME, or FAT32 or NTSF . . .with Windows 2000).

At some point, of course, you need to print your 20-minute video to tape. That will require that you have a print to tape utility that will print back-to-back avi's seamlessly, or you will, ultimately have to place those mini-just-right avi's on the VegasVideo timeline and render them all to one file (in the case of a twenty-minute video, that would exceed the FAT 32 file limit, so you would have to be working in NTSF to do it).

I'm hearing that the new vidcap 2.5 (downloadable as part of the VideoFactory 2.0 demo . . . well worth the time to download if you ask me) is capable of printing multiple avi's to overcome the 4gig limit, but I haven't tried it.

Before switching to NTSF, I used Studio DV or Studio 7 to print to tape.

The introduction of Vegas Vidcap 2.5 eliminates the need for me to use the Pinnacle products at all (they are still fine products . . . feature rich for their respective selling prices).

I'd be very interested in learning how you finally go about printing your 20-minute work to tape.

Good luck, and, ain't it fun!!!!

Caruso

>>The introduction of Vegas Vidcap 2.5 eliminates the need for me to use the Pinnacle products at all (they are still fine products . . . feature rich for their respective selling prices).
--------------------------------------

You will be using those Studio programs again for Print-to-tape. Here is why.

Vidcap 2.5 will only play multi avi's if they are a segmented pieces of one file. You aren't going to bring in avi files from different projects.
Not only will Studio do this, but you can edit. So now you can add a transition between avi clips. Or add some graphics that can be changed later much faster than at the Vegas project level. Or change something in your Vegas project, region render it out, split/paste/trim down to the frame in Studio. This is a hugh time saver.
No add in "smart rendering" and things get really good. On graphics and transitions you could be adding a generation of rendering but you'll never see a loss.
I hope we see SF raise the level of VidCap to Studios ability.

For anyone going this route, there a few tricks.
*Delete all Pinnacle codecs after installing Studio. This will make sure on the MS DV Codec gets used by Vegas and Studio.
*In Vegas, under Options/Prefs/General........... you will want to uncheck "strickly conform to AVI2".
*In Vegas, under "Render As" uncheck "save project markers in media files"
*In Studio, cancel out the scene dectection after the first progress bar pops when loading files.

Craig H.

Now you have me a little worried. I thought I could just send it back to camera. I did a 12 min video with out a hitch. I have window me using a sony vaio comp. it has Digital Studio which I have never used. Should I use that instead of Vagas to print to tape? Or I have a couple of places in my video that fade out and back in I could render in two parts and join together on camera.
Advice Please!
Caruso are you rendering an hour project? I am impressed

HPV is correct in his comments regarding Studio. Tink, you've rendered a 12-minute video without a hitch because 12-minutes will fit within FAT32 file size limitations. Fat32 will limit the length of your combined avi's to around 18 minutes. That's where Studio (or, I had hoped, Vidcap25) becomes especially useful.

Being no expert, I'm not sure exactly what Pinnacle does differently, but, you could drag any number of finished mini-projects in avi format to the Studio DV or Studio 7 project timeline (just as you do in Vegas), and then preview or re-render them in what Pinnacle calls their Make Movie mode. Studio (like Vegas during render) will look for and act on only those segments that need rendering (any new transitions you've added within Studio, such as fades between your Vegas segments if you need them), and, then you can output the entire project to DV tape. The real difference is that Pinnacle's Make Movie mode offers you a choice when you render between creating a new (and larger) avi file or simply rendering for output to DV (in which case, newly added transitions and FX get rendered so that they are suitable for output, but unaltered avi's remain unchanged). Then you click a check box to playback the entire production while sending it out to your DV camcorder.

Someone more conversant with the technical side would have to explain how Pinnacle's program manages that combined playback, but, I can tell you it works. Prior to switching to the NTSF filing system, it was the only choice I knew of to create seamless productions which exceeded that 18 minute limit.

With NTSF, your maximum file size (and length of production) is limited only by the amount of hard disk storage space you have available.

Just for fun (and to prove to myself that I could do it), I copied a full length feature film from VHS (I own the commercial copy of this film, by the way) through my DV Camcorder and onto my computer. Opened it in Vegas, rendered it (although Vegas really didn't have much work to do . . . . the only alteration I made was to trim the end of clip 001 and the beginning of clip 002 to stitch them together since my DV tape length is limited to 60 minutes and the film is an hour and 45 minutes long).

The resulting file is around 24 or 25 GB.

To do something that long in FAT32, you'd have 6 or 7 mini-avi's which would have to be "stitched together" and played out to tape using Studio (or something equivalent).

As good as Studio's output to tape is, IMO, Vegas is superior by far as a precise editing tool. Stitching 6 or 7 segments together so that there is no glitch can be a lot of work, especially in Studio, unless you have the luxury of being able to separate them with transitions (no place for transitions in my full-length film experiment).

That's why I went to NTSF (by switching to Windows 2000). Of course, Win2000 isn't for everyone, as some software written for Win9x has never been adapted for use with Win2000 and won't run. You could create a dual boot system and have a choice between operating systems whenever you boot up, it's not hard, but, may be more complicated than you want to get right now if you're just starting out.

The advent of Windows XP may render (pardon the pun) this entire subject moot, as I believe it will include support for NTSF (and still be able to play most of the win9x-only software).

Until then, we've pretty much kicked the pro's and con's to death on this thread.

Please pardon my length here.

Hope my comments help . . . have fun!!

Caruso

You both were a big help. I think I will seam it together at the fade in and out point. I tried to check out the DV gate but it would not allow me to open my clips. It said file format is not supported and it was set on DV codec avi file.
Thanks again for your time you saved me some unforeseen headaches.
Tink

I've never used the Sony product you mention, but, it can't hurt to give it a try (I bet someone else on this forum has experience).

In any event, you most certainly could use fades to separate and smoothly move from one project to the other on your final DV tape.

I didn't make any of my comments to frighten you in any way. Concentrate on having fun.

Except for your potential problem of exceeding the file-size limit, it would appear that you are having just as much success as I am.

My longer projects result from editing, for instance, from vacation tapes, where I might have shot four hours worth of video, much of it in analog from years ago.

I am so glad I didn't have the patience (or on-location opportunity) to fool around with all the fancy titling gizzmos that were available on the camcorders back then. The razor-tooth fonts in those onboard text generators produced results that look really crude by today's standards.

Anyhow, I'll capture four or five hours worth of stuff, and, usually, when I get done cutting away all the boredom (stuff that seemed really important at the time), I'll have a nice 45-minute video that even the most disinterested of my friends find interesting to watch once (either that, or they're just being really polite, LOL).

I plan on shooting some of my wife's school music productions for her. We'll get volunteers to man three camera locations, and I'll use VV to mix it all together.

Once you get the hang of it, it's not tough at all, so you should not be impressed with my one-hour videos.

Back to the topic, I don't know if your Sony software can string together avi's, but, give it a try.

Last time I checked, Studio DV was being sold for under $60 including a 1394 interface card. I haven't priced Studio 7 (I ordered my upgrade online), but doubt it would run more than $150.

I wouldn't worry about either until this limit actually starts to become a problem for you. When that happens, (and if your Sony software proves not to be up to the task), you might want to look at the Pinnacle products. Who knows, by then, SF may have added multiple avi output functionality to their capture product.

Not that you need my cheerleading, but, I encourage you to have fun and not worry.

Caruso