Organizing reporting of issues in Vegas 6

ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 11:15 AM
Maybe it's me or perhaps I am missing something, but I would like to see a "sticky thread" (perhaps by the forum's moderators), listing all the issues, bugs, glitches, and so on reported so far. IMHO that would be helpful, because:

a) us Vegas users would know what has been reported, thus reporting the same issues several times could be avoided.

b) Sony could acknowledge them and let us know, they are being addressed. I don't about anybody else, but such a thing would surely boost my confidence in the product.

c) posting the same/very similar issues in different forums on this site could also be avoided.

The way things are now, a lot of time and energy seems wasted by having to go through hundreds of postings reporting issues.

Just an idea.

Comments

Trichome wrote on 5/5/2005, 11:53 AM
Hmmmm let's see, Sony is going to leave a thread topic at the top of the forum stating BUGS/BROKEN... I highly doubt it.
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 12:01 PM
Why not? It is not like you can avoid the issue by ignoring it. The sooner the issues are resolved, the sooner such a thread can be removed again. Anyone visiting the forum and doing a little scrolling will notice the issues, and many of the users are experiencing them.

I am sure, somebody could come up with a somewhat less negative title (e.g. "Work in progress", "Vegas improvements"), if that seem necessary.
bStro wrote on 5/5/2005, 12:02 PM
Not gonna happen.

An official, public bug list may be okay for open source software, but no company of Sony's size in its right mind would put one up. Every time an update comes out, the users would have an "official" list to compare it to in order to complain about what has not been fixed in said update.

us Vegas users would know what has been reported, thus reporting the same issues several times could be avoided.

Why would they want to avoid this? The more people that report a bug, the higher a priority it is. They can't fix all issues, so they have to know which ones affect the most users. They also need to know as much information as possible about each case so they can deduce what causes the issue and, hopefully, how to fix it.

Sony could acknowledge them and let us know, they are being addressed.

They do that now. But it's more likely to happen if you report an issue -- complete with specifics both about your system and about what you were doing when the issue arose -- directly to them than if you post about it here on this user forum.

The way things are now, a lot of time and energy seems wasted by having to go through hundreds of postings reporting issues.

If people report their issues as I describe above, it's certainly not wasted time and energy. The solution is not a public list of issues; the solution is for people to use the proper channels and procedure to report their issues.

Rob
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 12:37 PM
What you say is probably true. But,

I would like to avoid having to post a bug that has been reported before, even if Sony may want me to. While it may true that priority could be given to solving any problem based on the number of users reporting it, it seems me that priority should primarily be assessed based on the seriousness of the problem (i.e., to what extent it interferes with the proper functioning/use of the software).

Whether or not there is an "official" list, people are going to compare what has been fixed and what has not (and then complain about that). AFAIK, Sony even provides a list of issues addressed in the updates when they release them.

Why would anybody post problems in user forums instead of going through "proper channels"? My guess is, because feedback (even if just from other users) is much faster. It is the same thing in any other user forum I know.
bStro wrote on 5/5/2005, 1:16 PM
it seems me that priority should primarily be assessed based on the seriousness of the problem (i.e., to what extent it interferes with the proper functioning/use of the software).

Which reported issues would you consider to fall under this category?

AFAIK, Sony even provides a list of issues addressed in the updates when they release them.

Well, yeah. It makes perfect sense to announce your "successes." When your performance review comes up at work, you tell your boss all the things you did well or improved upon. And you may even mention one or two of the things you want to work on. But do you really give him a list of all the things you've screwed up?

Why would anybody post problems in user forums instead of going through "proper channels"? My guess is, because feedback (even if just from other users) is much faster.

Sure, they get "feedback." And the instant gratification of knowing that someone else is just as annoyed as they are about the problem. But it doesn't contribute to a solution a whole lot.

Rob
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 1:43 PM
>>Which reported issues would you consider to fall under this category?

E.g. FXs doing the opposite of what they are supposed to do, PTT issue, crashes when using the new full-screen preview...

>>But do you really give him a list of all the things you've screwed up?

If it is important for him to know, I might. But then again, I don't really have performance review at work.

>>But it doesn't contribute to a solution a whole lot.

It may too, if someone can suggest a workaround, until the issue has been properly fixed.
Spot|DSE wrote on 5/5/2005, 2:12 PM
I can give you a workaround for the sharpen filter, if you need it.
Set the Convolution kernel,
-1,- 2,- 1
-2. 20, -2
-1,-2,-1

No work around for Film FX that I'm aware of.
Print to tape...render file, use V6 cap tool to print, or Open rendered file in V5, print w/that.
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 2:22 PM
Thanks, Spot.

However, the things I listed above were just in response to bStro's question and not all actually experienced by me (I don't print to tape). At this time, I still do most of my stuff on Vegas 5.0d with Vegas 6.0a being used for testing and experiments (at least until 6.0b).
Zion wrote on 5/5/2005, 4:27 PM
I can give you a workaround for the sharpen filter, if you need it.
Set the Convolution kernel,
-1,- 2,- 1
-2. 20, -2
-1,-2,-1


Thanks Spot!

ZION
rmack350 wrote on 5/5/2005, 5:13 PM
I'm not so thrilled with the idea of a public list of gripes, but if you wanted to take one on yourself it would be a good project for you. Given that there are 5 or six sites already devoted to Vegas, I wonder how much traffic you'd get. Maybe something like an rss feed?

Anyway, what I'd rather see from Sony is a better reporting feature built into Vegas itself. Having to hunt down my serial number every time I send a note to support is just wrong. Rather, there should be a support link in the help menu and it should automatically fill that information in.

Rob Mack
MyST wrote on 5/5/2005, 7:00 PM
Don't forget Rob, that all our serial numbers are now listed under the Forum Settings-My Software section. So the hunt isn't that long anymore.

Mario
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 9:27 PM
I'm not so thrilled with the idea of a public list of gripes, but if you wanted to take one on yourself it would be a good project for you.

Nope, couldn't do it for time and technical reasons (I don't have a website). Besides, as far as I' concerned, that is the manufacturer's job. BTW, the gripes are already public (that is what this forum is), even if they are not compiled into a single list (but that is just my point).
rmack350 wrote on 5/5/2005, 9:49 PM
I think, as just about everyone has said, this isn't something Sony should do. You just don't pubish a compendium of complaints for your competitor's convenience.

For a while this afternoon I was thinking a good alternative would be a list of product suggestions but that would be doing work for Apple and Adobe and Avid as well.

Rob Mack
rmack350 wrote on 5/5/2005, 9:56 PM
That's true. I'd forgotten that.

The serial number in "Help/About this program" isn't selectable so you can't copy and paste it.

Truth is that the number of questions you have to answer to make a support reguest is just too long. If it were a lot easier, people might turn to that avenue before posting gripes here. Less complaining here means less public hissy fits but the support costs will rise.

Although I've posted two support requests in the last two weeks and gotten no response so I don't think that sort of support is costing Sony all that much. (just being snarky, I'm sure they're answering some requests, and I got plenty of attention based on a forum post so I shouldn't complain too, too much)

Rob Mack
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 10:01 PM
You just don't pubish a compendium of complaints for your competitor's convenience.

What about your customers' convenience?

If Sony don't like to do this, for whatever reason, that is ok. After all, it is just an idea which makes sense to me (although I seem to be the only one to think so).
Spot|DSE wrote on 5/5/2005, 10:19 PM
Ro_max...
howzabout searching the web and finding a manufacturer of anything with a list of "this is what's currently wrong with our product and here's when you can expect it to be fixed 100%."
there might be one, but I've surely never seen it.
Either way, don't you think you've gotten your point across with the 7 posts in one day?
I don't know about anyone else, but I heard you the first 3-4 times. It ain't gonna happen, there is no sense in it happening, and other than satisfying curiosities, there is no benefit to it happening. If it was promised that XXX would work on a certain day, then if it didn't, people would be griping about that, too. It may not be rocket science, but it's not marbles, either. These guys are working on it, and that's good enough, isn't it?
ro_max wrote on 5/5/2005, 10:28 PM
OK, enough said.
norgeworks wrote on 5/5/2005, 10:53 PM
Not to re-ignite this thread, but I've got to say I agree with wanting a "working on" list. Perhaps its unrealistic.

Avid does something that I suppose I admire in a way, and begrudge in another. With most new software releases they not only tell you what they fixed, but the bugs that remain (and are known) with any workarounds. A lot of times there aren't any workarounds listed. =( Thankfully, they've all been minor issues that didn't affect me in any way--but it was still nice knowing they were being worked on. Your heart sinks turning to that page though, I've got to tell you.
Gary_G wrote on 5/6/2005, 12:21 AM
Most of the highend software I've used has had extensive bug reporting systems - AliasWavefront through to Maya 3d always use to give you a manual with all the bugs and workarounds if available. Discreet Flame compositing systems had a similar thing. Far from undermining confidence in the product its a sign that they were a serious and professional piece of software.

Every piece of software has bugs it's better to be transparent about them.

Gary
aspenv wrote on 5/6/2005, 12:49 AM
Spot, who is your daddy? (as Michael Moore would say)

Ro was answering other posts.

This is a forum. That is...a place for discussions. Ro has his right to confront, defend, punctuate, elaborate and, of course, reiterate his opinion.

On the other hand, I totally agree with him: After all...this forum is a customer forum...and customers reporting bugs and problems all the time is bad news for any product....But, even worse is a company that is not acknowledging these problems.

His proposal is a step forward in client-company relationship...and satisfaction.

In this Internet era, loyal customers and clients who believe in a product are willing to give their time, opinion and knowledge to improve a product. Why don't take advantage of this sincere loyalty?



farss wrote on 5/6/2005, 4:14 AM
Having worked with software engineers for many years and been known to write a bit myself any company that doesn't publish a list of know bugs, fixes, progress, resource allocations etc is one in serious trouble.
This is so basic not only from a customer point of view but also for internal project management.
To suggest that the existing customer support mechanism is acceptable is also laughable, can I ask, has anyone who'se lodged a trouble ticket ever been asked to sign off on it? I'm not even certain if they allocate a ticket number so you can track their progress on it's resolution.
I do part time work for a small software company, not what I'd call a stellar outfit by any means but even they can do better.
Can I also add this, my current contract basically says if I screw up and the customer looses money because of it, I get to pay for their losses, that kind of puts the blowtorch to the belly let me tell you. You think this is harsh, well reality check here, it's a standard clause in an industry standard contract.

As has been mentioned, other players DO publish known bugs etc, I'd add uStuff to the list, I don't know how many issues are referenced in their knowledgebase, it sure runs into the tens of thousands.

So far though things aren't looking too sweet with the latest releases of any of the product line I'm sorry to see, I don't want to start anything here but a quick scan of the SF and Vegas audio forum is not too encouraging, many of the problems are obscure but hit one and you could waste a lot of time working out whats going wrong. A list of know issues and how they occur would mean we could plan our projects accordingly. This isn't just a matter of convenience either, it's a matter of many peoples incomes, Vegas has always struggled to earn the monicker "professional", well that basically means people using it to earn income, it also means being in a situation where your risks are way higher than your returns. In that environment you need 101% confidence in your tools, it's enough of a worry dealing with things you might have screwed up but having to also wonder if your tools of trade may have screwed up something as well is a cost burden no professional can tolerate.

Bob.