Marina,

I sent it to Chienworks for upload to the Veggie site. It should be available to "everybody" shortly. I would like to take this opportunity to assure you that I did "read" the replies and responded to Chienworks request. Seemed to me the best democratic way to deal with it. I hope this meets with your approval. . .. Now, . . . can you help me on my request regarding 2.1 >> 5.1 audio. Yes? No?

My very best regards,

Grazie

You need 6 separate analogue out from you PC. A stereo out is 2. So you need three stereo cards or one multi. Then, if you want to hear it properly you need separate amplification and speakers set up right.

But if you have limitid space in you editing room, settle for less cahnnels out (2 will do, 4 is more). You can test-listen to your channels in different combinations before you render.

THEN you can test-render the file and blast it out it on your super duper 5.1 billed to kill living room soundstation or whatever thy call it this week.

When you've done this a few times, you'll know roughly what you can do (and so will your neighbours). Good thing I'm in Knightbridge when I'm around.
Tor

Hiyah Torsie,

Are you saying I can get a pseudo 5.1 with the system I've got? I do understand the need for the multiple cabling .. how do I use the 5.1 Panning option in Vegas if I use something less than 5.1? Or am I being totally thick?

Grazie

What you mix and what you render does not have to be the same as what you listen to. It would be a bit like editing on a less than good monitor. With a little experience you would know what tweaks to do - and you would check propely before you committed yourself to it for good.
If you have the space to set up 5.1 listening in your editing room (and the money to pay for it) go on and do it. I'm just saying you can make do with less.

And here's a load of infor for you to read up on Dolby tech

Tor

BTW - know a decent grob stall on the schlep from Westminster to Southwark? Either side of the river? Fish and Chips, perhaps? Me and my 30 under-age girls?

No.

Thanks for the graph request.

M.

I got my feet wet a few months ago. You need a multi-channel soundcard unless your motherboard already has this feature, which most don't. You plug the soundcard into a spare PCI slot, install the software that comes with it, and then buy a multichannel speaker system.

The typical speaker setup is the four corners, a center channel (for dialog), and a subwoofer.

You can find soundcards all over the price spectrum. I discovered that a cheap ($12) little 4-channel card works fine, but don't plan to use the mic or line-in connections--the noise level is lousy. Since I already had a USB audio input device (a little device called an Imic, popular with the Macintosh crowd), I didn't need to use the audio-in ports.

You go to Properties, and select 5.1, and immediately your audio track header sports a little surround-sound graphic, allowing you to move that channel anywhere in your 2D sound space. Then the question becomes: what do you put in those extra channels? I've begun experimenting with surround-sound field recording, where the rear sounds are recorded to a MiniDisc recorder velcroed on the back of my VX-2000 camera battery. More buttons to push, and more things to go wrong, but it looks as impressive as heck. Also weighs a lot.

Now, how did I just know it wasn't gonna be straightforward? . . AND expensive . . Torsie thank you .. riredale too funy! But yes, itthis type of "advance" in my activities that might have to wait . . My MONSTA! pc is back at the hospital . . "E" drive went tits-up during a major project . . having an extra 160gb added on and the sick disk replaced . .that'll give me 400gbs in total PLUS the external 360gbs of mators . . AND I'm having them look at my MoBo Asus P4 G800Deluxe for the options of 5.1 . . but yes, guys, thanks for sharing the "hard won" experience,

Grazie

Ah, lads, lads . . this ASUS has a S/PDIF out plug?Any good for the 5.1 stuff?

Grazie

I have gone to the M-Audio 7.1 Revolution sound card for the 5.1 PC thing, it work great.

Can you monitor your sound while working in Vegas? . . I guess all your outputs are analogue - yes?

Grazie

>Ah, lads, lads . . this ASUS has a S/PDIF out plug?Any good for the 5.1 stuff?

No. This will play 5.1 only on "converted" files, i.e., DVDs on your computer player. Vegas cannot convert to 5.1 to SPDIF on the fly. According to Sony, several generations of computer power away.

And I would not use the 5.1 sound from your board. I have seen no definitive tests proving this is wrong, however, it will take a significant (10-20%?) amount of your available CPU and no one seems to know if the quality is as good as a dedicated sound card.

The 5.1 sound cards are pretty cheap. The connections are pretty cheap. The money is spent on your speakers. What do you have now?

Whoops: On re-read it occurred to me that your ASUS should also have a 5.1 analog out, i.e., 3 stereo plugs. So you *could* use it as a "sound card", notwithstanding my above concerns. But the SPDIF will not work for Vegas.

Grazie, how would you feel about a collaborative effort. I've been mixing two channel audio into 5.1 tracks and would like to try with audio foreign to my usual audio habits. Just I thought.

Hunter

Hiyah Boyz!

RMD and Hunter,

RMD - So, let me recap. SPDIF is a purely digital "OUTS" - yes? Okay What I/we need at present to preview "helicopters" and the like whizzing around my head is to have analogue "OUTS" and 3 pairs too - yes? Okay . . . I've got the Asus P4 G800 Deluxe, and you are "suggesting" that I possibly HAVE an option of grabbing 3 analogue stereo pairs - for analogue speakers for and only for previewing - helicopters etc etc - okay . . . .

At present I've got a 2.1 Logitech system. To me it appears that the supply "emerges" from the rear of the MONSTA! pc as an analogue OUT. This goes to the very large central speaker. Then the supplies are split between the two rather charming little Left and Right speakers - okay? Right, on one of these speakers there IS a volume control - no balance control anywhere. However there is a major large knob on the rear of the BIG central speaker. It would seem to mean these Logitechs are a "closed" system - meaning that they deal with the analogue signal and organise it through the 3 speakers in a - well, I'm not sure - purely in an abitary way. I can't see how to "mix" between the 3 speakers. I can't see how one would BOOST the central and reduce the outer. More to the point, I can't see a way to "separately" apply a dramatic effect to this central speaker .. yer know, the type of "rumble" of the space ship we all hear when "Enterprise" fills the screen - yeah? Okay. So I've got a good sounding non-controllable non-mixable 2.1 analogue system. Question: Can I at least "use and abuse" - that is get my cutters outta the bag - to adopt this system, ADD a further 2 speakers - oh yes I have been accruing speakers! - to the 2.1 then not needing to spend money on a 5.1? . . .Or have I got it wrong . . again . . ? This is a real minefield for me. RMD, I've read your and other colleagues posts and here hereabouts, and I must say this is not a simple plug-and-play option for the making use of the 5.1 Vegas editing and then audio production. I'm very sure it is a wonderful thing to see and then at the same time the panning of the 5.1 in the 5.1 panning Icon . . it is that close I can "smell" it!! I'm hanging in there . . . okay, I need to add that I can preview audio, that is pan and level control and hear this directly within Vegas. Meaning this 2.1 system works as an editing tool . .

Okay, does this all mean I need a duplicate set of systems. One for the previewing and one for the DVD playing? This can't be correct. If this is not correct then surly amongst all this there must be a switching device to "kick-over" to either analogue or digital . . this is getting very weird . . It can't be this complicated .. ? Oh, I realise that where ever the final DVD is played, set-top in lounge or client, they/I will need 5.1 something to "hear" the helicopter!

Hunter - yes-ish! What have you in mind? I'm on a tight timesched so lets see what we can do . .yeah? Remind me of your your email and I'll respond - yeah? I don't have 5.1 yet - huh?

Grazie

Grazie, it sounds like your motherboard will support analog 6-channel out. I went to Asus.com but could not find a P4G800, but most all of the 800 FSB boards do 5.1. Check the manual. Then get a good set of 5.1 speakers Logitech has been my main brand for a few years good and cheap except for THX series. very good very pricy
I just remembered I clicked on North America Asus, be right back, Yupper it has 6-channel. Page 1-6 of manual, install the AC97 MoBo drivers for it and you'll be ready. The trick will be getting the right settings in Vegas - ASIO or Direct Map don't know which you should use. Anyone here use onboard audio for 5.1?

As for the co-op, I didn't realize your project was for production. How ever this is what I had in mind, you build your project in stereo, render audio to wav or other high quality, send/post me the file. If audio needs sync to vid, render a wmv at 256 and send/post that to me. Then I would send/post files back along with veg. (I forget - did you upgrade yet, I'm still V4)
Hunter at huntergraham dot com
5mb cap on mail and I have yet to figure out the ftp control panel, I never figured I'd need it. I'd like to help, but I think your time limit may count me out. Maybe next time, on a lesser project ... :-)

Hunter

Grazie, when you get down to it, you'll see that not very much is going on in the extra channels (not if you are professional about it). The main stuff will always end up in the left and right front speakers. That's why you can go a long way mixing on a good stereo pair.
I suppose this area is a bit like the transition stuff - some people will always overdo things, sending helicopters aound their living room at all times. Well, like the man said (stealing from Socrates): less is more.

No matter what you do you will need to do a good stereo mix as the basis. Then you'll want to add - what? Effects! You' put the Boom Boom at the .1 channel and the little extra tingelings at the rear - adding spaciness. My advise: Forget about moving things around. Concentrate on creating depth. When you can do that easily, and when you have a project that requires it - add the fourth dimension.
Tor

Being a supsicious mind when it comes to advertising and marketing, I believe the Logitech stuff is nothing but a stereo system with a filter circuit thrown in at the speaker end to create some extra bass. If I'm right, you'll have a hard time controlling it as three channels beacuse it aint.
If you want 5.1 out you need 6 discreet out (or 3 stereos) from your PC - be it the board or soundcard(s). Then you'll need to keep the signals separate all the way to the speakers. That means 1 six channel amplifier or 3 stereo ones.

But like I said, you can create stunning 5.1 on a stereo pair, even on a 2.1. But you should have a 5.1 setup somewhere to run final tests on. And that should be something similar to the project's final target system.
Tor

Tors,

Hmm... I've given your feedback some very serious thought.

The tranni thiong yes. Being pro about audio . .I'll leave that up to you . . making the most of the exsisting 2 channels is always THE challenge . . but your what you say apears to be a contradiction - " . .not very much is going on in the extra channels (not if you are professional about it)." I'm reallly having a problem understanding this . . Are you saying, being pro will be the way to go about stuff? Are you also saying that experimenting and messing about will return amatuer values? Sorry mate .. I fall very heavily into the latter group. . .. I've done some projects where people are making noises all around me, having them walk past and through the viewer might be really neat! - Oh yes I realise that the viewer would also need to have 5.1 to "take" advantage of my "amatuer" attempts . . . <wink>

Tell you what - matey - Socrates [ I always thought this was Picasso! ] - was the first amateur who recognised and placed at the centre of his particular Realism - yes realism came later, I know - was all about "experimenting" for its own good. Less is More! Oh yes . .But yer need to know it first . . tell you what, I listen to you and take your word for it . . I'll have the Vegas function of 5.1 temtpting me from the t/l and just ignore it? Yeah?

Thanks for sharing your expertise and your general "care" that I shouldn't either break the bank - you didn't say this - OR get twisted up trying to do something beyoind my pace OR trying to run (being pro?) before I can crawl . . ah . .always been my problem . . . I came to NLE stuff with very very little knowledge of what I was doing - slight improvement here - but with you and out friends here I've - I think - bounded along and really have enjoyed the "trail", journey or path.

I don't know where I'll end up . .but tell you what, I'm having fun as I go along . . 5.1? If it is "easy" to instigate on my pc and within my present setup, I'll give it a go. Would I do the transition thing with 5.1? I would hope not . .but thank you for your reality check on my potential messiness I could create in my work . .

As always Torsie, you make me stand back and ponder as to what I'm about . .ah . .South Bank and beer!?!?!

"Grazie, when you get down to it, " - It's only Rock 'n Roll .. but I like it like it like it . . yes I do!"

Cheers,

Grazie

OKay OKay OKay . . I want to make use of the 5.1 Vegas panner and hear this on a final DVD.

Grazie

Open the Dolby link above. Do a search for guidelines download a few (You should get 77 hits) - they are pdfs - and absorb the wisdom.

Yes Picasso did say it (I guess), only Socrates said something similar a bit earlier.

Tor

Particularly an article called Some guidelines for poducing music in 5.1 channel surround. get that.
T
No no, the file is multichannel_music_mixing.pdf

Quote (from said article):
But as with any new tool or effect, it can be overdone and become tiresome if used to excess. Maybe the principle that has served so well for the film industry can also work for music mixing: don't use the surrounds to distract the listener's attention away from the story.
No, Socrasso didn't say that - they just implied it.
Tor

Ha! Nicely put Torsie . .

Just been onto my pc hospital, and yes the ASUS can be "changed" to 5.1 use the Sound MAx s/w . . the presently Mic in and the "other" mic" out would hthen be configured to achive the annalogue side of things. Now I'm only geuessing, that Vegas would then £recognise" the extra loudseakers and go for it . . don't know . .

Anyways, back to basics . .My HP1100 deskjet just packed-up; IMHO rotten design all round ; just got the "new" natty little HP1010 . . TOOOooo cute, feel like a wanna keep stroking it and giving it a dish of warm milk!! - They do purr yer know! Treat them nice and they purr . . .ah bless . ..

Hey ho!

Thaniks guys for your help .. The worst that can happen is the need to buy extra speakers . .

Grazie