OT: 65th Anniversary of Warsaw Uprising

megabit wrote on 8/1/2009, 11:10 AM

I've been busy recently restoring some archive, extremely worn-out, amateur films shot during the Warsaw Uprising, which broke out on August 1st, 1944.

Just a small note to those who never heard of that heroic event, or know some stupid, politically motivated, stories about it...

The Red Army was approaching Warsaw from the east in their great offensive, pushing the Nazis west-ward. However, on August the first, they just stopped at the east bank of the Vistula river (crossing Warsaw) - and stayed there for as long as 63 days. They never helped us Poles!

During those 63 days, the Warsaw civilians fought with the overwhelming SS forces. They finally had to surrender; some 20,000 of the fighters lost their lives. Another 200,000 innocent Warsaw citizens were murdered afterwards by the Nazis, and the heroic city of Warsaw has been completely ruined, and turned to ashes, in revenge...

If someone ever wonders: "was it worth it?" - well, I just have to ask:

- Where do you think Soviets would stop in their offensive, were they not be waiting for 63 days until the anti-Nazi, anti-communist Polish heroes of Warsaw bled to death? Would the "Eastern Block" be limited to just what it was? Wouldn't the whole of Germany, Austria, France and Italy suffer for some more 45 years under the Soviet domination - just like we Poles did?

Well; I apologize for being so off-topic here...

Comments

UlfLaursen wrote on 8/1/2009, 9:33 PM

Well, Piotr, it's so hard to beleive the crualty of the 2 systems back then, there has been several documentaries and films in TV on this, and it moved me every time I see stuff like that. I think we should never forget it, not that we shall talk about it all the time, but at occasions like this 65th anniv. we should remember.

/Ulf

PeterWright wrote on 8/1/2009, 9:51 PM

I can feel how much that anniversary means to you Piotr, as it should to us all.

You'd think that we would all learn from such episodes, but there are still many trying to repeat the story.

Eckhart Tolle describes human history, and in particular the 20th Century, as proof of the insanity which has been dominating our society.

Only by a change of consciousness at individual level can this change – we’re still largely stressing and fighting over things that don't exist.

megabit wrote on 8/1/2009, 11:32 PM

Thanks guys for your words.

Looking at the old films I'm trying to restore (a legacy from my late family members, who fought in the Uprising), I couldn't resist expressing my feelings here (this forum is special, as it allows off-topic threads - I feel like in the family here).

Just to add one very important historical information: the world tends to be much better aware of the uprising in the Nazi-occupied Warsaw Jewish Ghetto, which took place one year earlier - in 1943. That one ended tragically, as well - all the ghetto dwellers were either killed, or simply ended up in the Treblinka nazi extermination camp. One of the more important incidents of the Holocaust...

Grazie wrote on 8/2/2009, 12:11 AM

Awful . . . .

However, and on a more salient note the Polish underground movement, impressed by the Jews courage, assisted the Jews with better arms. During three months of 1943, few if no Jews were captured. It was the Jews, turning their previous acceptance of their fate into defiance, that instilled the possibility of beating the NAZIs to onlookers.

Rather than saying confused, it was a timely 12 month recognition of what COULD be done that could have inspired "others" to resist.

How Edmund Burke put it: "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

Doing nothing ain't an option. Making your post here supports the case for not forgetting - meaning, doing nothing. Oh, and BTW, not all Jews were exterminated. Jews did escape and found refuge in the US and others formed the basis of the movement for a place for Jews to be "safe".

So, in a real sense, much was learnt and much has STILL to be learnt too!

Grazie

megabit wrote on 8/2/2009, 12:40 AM

"During three months of 1943, few if no Jews were captured"

Few ?!! According to German estimations, ca. 7,000 Jews were killed, 6,000+ burnt alive, and 50,000 sent to the Treblinka extermination camp. A few escaped, yes. Also, the Jewish uprising lasted only one month ("only" ?!!)

Grazie, see "The Pianist" movie by Roman Polanski...

Also, while the Jews indeed only wanted to "turn their previous acceptance of their fate into defiance" as you rightfully put it - and die with dignity, the Polish up-risers were really hoping to win - in the sense of freeing the capitol of Poland from the Nazis just before it would fall into the hands of the other oppressors, coming from the east... Should they have succeeded, the post-war history of Europe might have been quite different!

Oh well, I'm aware it all has anyway been "arranged" the other way - and not by the fighters, but between Messrs Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin...

Piotr

PS. More to our merits here (movies), unfortunately the Warsaw uprising story has not been dramatized in many movies; the only one that comes to my mind is "Kanal" (The Channel") by Andrzej Wajda.

Grazie wrote on 8/2/2009, 1:49 AM

http://www.warsaw-life.com/poland/warsaw-ghetto-uprisingPiotr, I got the 3 month interregnum from here.[/link] I am very very aware of the dreadful atrocities.

Wadja turned me on to docu-drama. Growing up in "safe" London his films and the Vietnam war kinda sealed my wish to do stuff in video - yeah? "Kanal" as part of the Trilogy he did. "Ashes and Diamonds" and . . er . . .?

Grazie

megabit wrote on 8/2/2009, 1:59 AM

""Kanal" as part of the Trilogy he did. "Ashes and Diamonds" and . . er . . .?"

"Pokolenie" ("The Generation") was the third, Grazie.

I'm very proud you know Wajda's oeuvre :)

BTW "Ashes and Diamonds" notion has been used later (not so much in conjunction with the film in question, but - like with Wajda himself - coming from the IMHO greatest Polish romantic poet, C.K. Norwid) in the lyrics of Roger Waters, whose reminiscences of the WW2 (and war in general) are well known.

megabit wrote on 8/3/2009, 2:07 AM

Grazie,

Speaking of docu-drama, and still in Wajda's context: have you seen his latest one, "Katyn" - about NKVD murdering over 20,000 Polish officers on the orders of Stalin, just after the WW II broke? Wajda's own father was allegedly one of them...

The Soviets claimed later it was the Nazis who did it; after the Nazis finally invaded Russia in 1941, they found the mass graves and used this horrible findings in their anti-Soviet propaganda for years.

I'm asking, because this film has not been ranked particularly high by the Western critics, and Wajda himself has been accused of anti-Russian phobia. I'm very curious what your own opinion would be!