OT: 8" LCD Monitors - ongoing follow-up.

craftech wrote on 3/15/2006, 4:29 PM
I am getting tired of lugging around a CRT field monitor and although I realize the field monitor is more accurate, I think I would like around an 8" LCD monitor for certain shoots. If one looks at the video suppliers one finds the usual overpriced LCD monitors. They don't seem any different than the ones sold for mobile theater applications.
I was looking at the PYLE PLVR85M for $150 and was wondering about the 16 x 9 aspect ratio. I wanted a 4 x 3, but they discontinued the 843 eight inch model that had a similar brightness rating. Will the 16 x 9 screen throw me off a lot? What I don't get is that some of them are called widescreen and some are not. Despite the 16 x 9 aspect ratio this model is NOT called a widescreen model.

John

Comments

riredale wrote on 3/15/2006, 7:45 PM
I dunno--maybe my eyes are getting old from staring at this screen so much, but that display sure looked like 4:3 to me. Being kinda obsessive about these things, I got out my ruler and measured the screen image. Turns out the photo shows a 1.5:1 display, which is neither 4:3 or 16:9. So they must have screwed up the photo somehow.

If it's meant to be a headrest monitor, then I'll bet it has the ability to switch from 4:3 to 16:9. I bought my wife a cool little DVD player for Christmas, and later discovered it has video input on the back. A menu lets you select either aspect ratio. This monitor might be very similar.

Which brings up the point--why not look around for an inexpensive DVD player? I only paid $79 for this one, and the display is surprisingly good. One thing I noticed, however, is that there is no color adjustment for external video feeds, and the display was just enough of a green shift for me to notice.

Perhaps one thing you're getting when you buy a "professional" display is peace of mind that the display is properly calibrated.
Fleshpainter wrote on 3/15/2006, 8:46 PM
I'm looking at the same questions and came across these:
http://www.logicsupply.com/default.php/cPath/52?referrer=googleAd
Haven't made any decisions yet. Not worried about calibration in the field, I have a "real" NTSC studio monitor back at the editing suite. My concern is composition. Too many things are missed when trying to view the image on a little dinky 2 inch camera monitor. I'd be using a 7 - 8 inch'er for steady-cam work as I already use a 15 inch LCD for locked-down or jib shots.
craftech wrote on 3/16/2006, 4:43 AM
I thought it was 4 x 3 when I looked at the picture myself. But it says it is a widescreen monitor on the Pyle website. The one I wanted was the PLV843R. It also has a good brightness rating, is definitely 4 x 3 and is also under $200, but even those who SAY the have it in stock do not. It is discontinued. The other problem with an 8" widescreen is that it isn't as large as it sounds because of the way they measure it. I was just wondering how video from the camera would display on a 16 x 9 widescreen monitor. Would composition be unreliable when shooting?

John
craftech wrote on 3/20/2006, 12:25 PM
Just to update this I ended up ordering a Sound Storm SSV8F. It has a brightness rating of 450 NITS. It didn't say if it was 4 x 3 or 16 x 9 on the Sound Storm website, but the company seemed like it was decent and all this stuff is imported from the country holding our largest share of the national debt anyway.
The manual for that model was not on the website so I e-mailed a sales representative for the company who promptly scanned and e-mailed me a copy of the short user manual. On the last page it said Display Ratio 4:3 so I ordered it.

When it arrives and I get a chance to test it, I'll post my impressions in case any of you were looking to buy one of these over an overpriced unit made special for just for videographers......................................................................................................in the country holding our largest share of the national debt.

John
Former user wrote on 3/20/2006, 1:46 PM
How are you going to deal with the upside down mounting arrangement when using this monitor as a field monitor (and not on the ceiling of a vehicle)?

How about power?

Jim
craftech wrote on 3/20/2006, 2:28 PM
How are you going to deal with the upside down mounting arrangement when using this monitor as a field monitor (and not on the ceiling of a vehicle)?

How about power?

===========
I was going to wait until I get it and then figure it out. It may detach or it may also act as a sun shield for me. I have to see. I'll post some photos.

For power I have four different 12 volt wall warts that put out plenty of amps. I have to plug in my field monitor most of the time so I can plug in a wall wart just as easily. For walking around I will just use the dopey 2.5" LCD on the camera as usual. Regulated power supplies like this one are what is needed. They typically need to put out around 40 watts (around 12-16 volts and 3-3.5 amps). I don't own a laptop, but I believe some of those AC adapters would work as well.

John


DavidMcKnight wrote on 3/20/2006, 2:53 PM
Does the instruction sheet say if the image can be rotated 180 degrees via the menu? If so at least that issue would be solved.
craftech wrote on 3/20/2006, 3:38 PM
It doesn't say. Typically the instructions on imported electronics are really poor. That is why you cannot find out a lot about them before you buy them. The sales people often simply do not know themselves. The instruction booklet he e-mailed to me is 5 small pages. It says in the list for button 2:

2. MENU: Activate OSD Menu.
Press it and it will "shows":
VOLUME-BRIGHTNESS-CONTRAST-SATURATION-HUE-SOURCE INPUT-AV INVERSE-AV MIRROR.

John
snicholshms wrote on 3/20/2006, 11:46 PM
Check out http://www.allcam.biz/products/lilliputtv.html

They carry several sizes and aspect ratio TVs and monitors..They also have a five hour Lithium battery.
David Settlemoir wrote on 3/21/2006, 10:45 PM
I just took this photo on a shoot yesterday:

pic

I was running VHS time code dubs while we were shooting for the client as I was doing audio. I could also see the audio meters from the DVX100A on the monitor which was nice. We also had a standard Sony field monitor for the camera op. LCD was much lighter though. I think it came from Radio Shack.

Axion LCD Unit

David
craftech wrote on 3/22/2006, 6:55 AM
They all have adjustments for brightness, contrast, color, etc. One has to try and calibrate it as close as possible and they aren't really a substitute for a CRT field monitor in terms of accuracy, but they sure beat the heck out of those ever shrinking LCD monitors that swing out of the cameras. It's the industry trend:
1. Shrink the CCD size to save manufacturing costs.
2. Shrink the LCD screen for the same reason.
3. Remove little mechanical wheels and buttons in favor of wading through menus to do simple tasks.
4. Add useless bells and whistles for advertising purposes.

John
craftech wrote on 3/26/2006, 10:22 AM
Received the SoundStorm SSV8F last week from Audio Warehouse Express. They did a very nice job packing the unit to keep it from being damaged in shipment.

I plan to write a short review after next weekend since this unit is perfectly suited to the school play I have to shoot at the end of the week. I have to stand on top of a cafeteria table with my tripod and setup.

My initial impressions from running the camera feed through this unit are that the requirements for power are as I stated above with between 2-3 amps coming from a regulated power supply being more than adequate. The display is very bright which goes right along with the stated brightness rating of 450 NIT and the adjustments for brightness, contrast, hue, and saturation are easily accessible with either the remote control or the buttons on the unit itself. I will calibrate it against my JVC TM-H150CG.

Since this unit was designed for mounting to the inside roof of a vehicle, mounting it on a tripod bracket requires that the unit be inverted and subsequently the image. That is easily done with the buttons on either the unit or the remote. There are buttons for mirroring the image left or right as well.

The tripod mount was the next challenge and the goal was to come up with something that is really easy to make so that any of you (regardless of DIY interest) would opt to do this instead of:
"I can't be bothered doing all that . I'd rather spend the $175 for the bracket and buy it from B&H. "

That goal was met and the final cost of the mount was under $5 and can be made in around an hour or less. It also serves as a microphone mount.

I'll post pictures of it after I test it out next week to make sure it works as well as I think it will.

John
Grazie wrote on 3/26/2006, 11:46 AM
Seems we're going Monitor Mad!

Got a Maxim 7" widescreen in January - great for framing and doing interviews where I need to see both screen and eye ball interviewee - plus others things too. However, I'm using this step-up 7.2 > 12 volt device. I've reconfigured the layout and have put the step-up on the reverse side and velcroed the monitor to front. It has a red light to show when it is sending power and takes my Canon 7.2 volt BP945s.

I used it yesterday outside and videoed some canaries and so on. Used my filters to keep the iris open and was able to determine shallow DoF, good colour and subtleties of grain. But it is this step-up device that has broken me free from the shackles of the lead acid battery - WORD OF WARNING -THIS DOES not come with a LOW battery WARNING device!!

Sorry here's the link:

http://www.avsupplystore.com/delv-bpca.html

$120 US - works for me!!

Grazie
craftech wrote on 3/26/2006, 12:38 PM
Grazie,
I planned to use this with an AC/DC power adapter as I linked above, but if I were to attempt to use it in the field with a rechargeable battery I would use a small lawn tractor battery such as this one. They charge up with a regular automotive battery charger, are very small (maybe 19-20cm long), cheap (16-17 GBP), and readily available in hardware stores as well as larger stores like Walmart, Target, Home Depot, etc.

John
bdub wrote on 3/27/2006, 12:55 PM
I will second the vote for dvd players w/ an AV in. I found an Axiom at Radio Shack that is tablet-style (needed to flip for lens adapter). Definitely not a professional calibrated field monitor! We were using DV Rack, but this worked great for me to see what I was doing.
Here are a few shots of the rig though none show the screen. I mounted it with velcro to an arm I put together ( I really felt like a guerilla filmmaker).
shot 1
shot 2
Grazie wrote on 3/27/2006, 8:38 PM
Yes John - I use/used the Yuasa brand. And very cheap too. Many, many configurations in size, voltages and dimensions. I have a 12 volt L/A batt. which WAS powering my 5" monitor. Heavy-ish! Now, using this step-up I can use my much lighter BP945 7.2 Canon battery to give me 12 volts. G
craftech wrote on 3/28/2006, 5:13 AM
Now, using this step-up I can use my much lighter BP945 7.2 Canon battery to give me 12 volts. G
========
How long does the charge last on the Canon battery when you do that?
I have an apron for my tripod. It hangs from the center and attaches to all three legs. With a tractor battery inside that I will have a more stable tripod due to the extra weight, no?
John
Former user wrote on 3/28/2006, 6:41 AM
Have you guys tried a drill battery? I bought a dead Makita charger from an eBay auction ($10, included shipping) and gutted it, removed the AC cord and mounted a cigarette jack in the case as well as a fuse holder. I have four high capacity 2.6 AH 12 volt NiMH batteries that I can keep charged using a Makita fast charger I have. You can get these batteries for around $45 each on eBay (new, OEM versions).

I suspect any good quality drill battery / charger combo will work...

Now I can use anything rated for 12 volts that I can either buy or make an adapter for and I can use the batteries for my drill too ;-)
Coursedesign wrote on 3/28/2006, 7:06 AM
Jim,

I take my hat off to thee.

That use of a dead Makita charger was brilliant!
Jsnkc wrote on 3/28/2006, 8:14 AM
I was looking for something similar a few weeks ago. I was also looking at some portable DVD players and I came across This Portable DVD Player which has a video input on it...only $99 too! I have used it a few times already and it is so much nicer than looking at my small screen on my GL2. It's far from a professional monitor....but it works very well for me.
vission1 wrote on 3/28/2006, 8:18 AM
I have been considering getting a small monitor or DVD player like suggested above. However the problem with most DVD players is they are only ~240 lines so you'd be only seeing 1 field of video.

My desire for a second monitor is simply for proofing, video & dvd layouts, so obviously titling will look a bit choppy. There are some nice 10" DVD players that are @480p, or there are cheap 7" touch screen displays that are 480p for ~$200

For the guy who already purchased the drop down LCD how does it look as it is only 240p lines?

Vission
craftech wrote on 4/1/2006, 7:48 AM
OK,
I spent the day trying to calibrate the 8 inch LCD monitor because I had a shoot last night and tonight that could benefit from using it. It was an elementary school musical where I had to stand on top of a cafeteria table to shoot (I once had to stand on THREE of them stacked on top of each other in a gymnasium without breathing for eight hours).
I have two video calibration DVDs. The Avia Guide to Home Theater and the Discwasher Home Theater Setup Disk. Both work well for CRT monitors and the Avia disc even comes with blue, green, and red filters.
After several hours it was clear that these discs do not work well for an LCD monitor. The Avia disc does have a pattern to adjust contrast on an LCD screen and that worked OK. The brightness adjustment worked OK too. The color saturation and hue adjustments did NOT. I ended up being able to calibrate the 8 " LCD monitor in the following way:

1. Use the setup disc for contrast and brightness only (still ended up a rough setting)
2. Put the LCD monitor next to my calibrated JVC TM-H150CGU
professional color monitor and fiddle with the settings until the images looked the same feeding both the same sources using a splitter. Sources varied from camera tapes, DVDs and VHS tapes to broadcast signals.

I ended up with the following final settings for this particular model:

Brightness: 52
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 57
Hue: 12

Settings are retained after the unit is shut off.

Last night I tested it for the first time using my VX2000 with it's puny 2.5 inch screen and the 8 inch monitor on my homemade bracket right next to it mounted on my tripod.

Since the director was the typical mole most of them are when it comes to what they consider appealing lighting for the stage it was going to be a good test.

There was a definite difference between the exposure showing on the 8 inch monitor as compared to the one on the camera. Since I am shooting this again tonight I used the 8 inch monitor to adjust exposure and took notes as to when I used the one on the camera (left at it's default brightness setting).

Today I went through every inch of the tape. The 8 inch LCD monitor was dead on in every scene. So it looks like I can trust it after I calibrated it the way I described above.

In terms of sharpness, it is not as sharp as the tiny one on the camera, but is certainly adequate for focusing (even in settings where moles determine the available light). The stated resolution doesn't seem to vary from brand to brand or price to price. It appears to be the same spec for any given screen size and aspect ratio which (so far) is convincing me more and more that spending a whole lot of money on one of these is money wasted. This one is 800 x 600 and 4:3. It was the 450 NIT brightness rating, availability, and the price that sold me on this one. The ad has the resolution misprinted. The resolution they state is for a 16:9 equivalent size monitor. The booklet packed with the unit had the correct resolution (800 x 600).

The lights on this unit were really handy in the dark. I didn't even have to use my Maglight; and the inverted roof monitor acted like a handy tray as well. I put my notes and the LCD's remote control in there.

I will do a follow up with more details to come.

John