OT: Adam Wilt on HDV (links to articles included, scroll down)

Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/4/2005, 12:53 PM
In this month's DV magazine, there's an interesting article by Adam Wilt entitled "HDV: A Hands-On Test Drive." He has brought to the forefront many of my concerns regarding HDV for the here and now. He discusses all the pros and cons of the medium (and there are some of both) as it is today, not what it will become, which is a more realistic approach in my opinion.

For example, he says, "These are early days yet, so it's premature to make sweeping quality judgements. ... Whether it's suitable for your kind of work is something only you can say."


Comments

JJKizak wrote on 4/4/2005, 2:58 PM
Adam Wilt speaks in terms way above my level of understanding, particularly explaining why some titling software doesn't work to well. To the best of my knowledge he is into this stuff as heavy as you can get. That's why I don't gripe about Vegas titling problems because after I read his disertations on titling you would need NASA programmers to correct it.

JJK
BillyBoy wrote on 4/4/2005, 3:03 PM
"These are early days yet, so it's premature to make sweeping quality judgements"

Funny, weren't you one of the guys in a thread past that suggested what HD means was already carved in stone? I know a couple were. <wink>

FuTz wrote on 4/4/2005, 3:21 PM
I guess the "engine" is there. Speculations will eventually be about "parts" like the "fuel pump", the "alternator", the "timing belt" and so on...
Personnally, I don't buy for as long as I can't see the whole car and there's no price competition...
BillyBoy wrote on 4/4/2005, 3:59 PM
Cline, get a life.
John_Cline wrote on 4/4/2005, 6:51 PM
Nevermind. Billy, the forum is all yours, RIP IT UP!
craftech wrote on 4/5/2005, 6:17 AM
"Rocky 14"

John
PDB wrote on 4/5/2005, 6:26 AM
"Rocky 14"....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
farss wrote on 4/5/2005, 6:37 AM
Interesting tidbit from a HD forum. Owner of a F900 just lost a job to someone with a Z1. The clients are voting with their cheque books.
Bob.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/5/2005, 8:58 AM

"A" job out of how many thousands per day? Come on, Bob.

Like the Adam said, "There's a lot more to HDTV production than simply getting the image."

Adam Wilt and John Jackman both have said, in so many words, now is not necessarily the time to dump your SD equipment and make the move to HDV. To be sure, it's coming, but that time ain't here yet!


Coursedesign wrote on 4/5/2005, 9:07 AM
"Interesting tidbit from a HD forum. Owner of a F900 just lost a job to someone with a Z1. The clients are voting with their cheque books."

And before that, somebody with a Betacam lost a job to someone with a PD150.

There is a time and place for everything.

If you ever get a chance to see real copper-engraved letterhead, give it a look-see.
I have only seen it once, it belonged to a royal family in Europe, and I was dumbfounded by the *incredible* beauty of this process. So do I use this for my company? No, because it wouldn't be appropriate (my customers would think they were paying extra for it :O).

There is definitely a place for the F900, too.

At least until NAB :O).
Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/5/2005, 9:12 AM

Here's a link to Adam Wilt's article.

Here's a link to John Jackman's article.


Bill Ravens wrote on 4/5/2005, 9:20 AM
When, and if, customers truly do start opting for HDV, guess it'll be time for me to belly up to the HDV bar. So far, I haven't really seen anough demand to justify the transition for my workflow. Maybe things will go thru a drastic change after NAB?
Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/5/2005, 9:26 AM

Bill, I couldn't agree more. John Jackman closed with this:

"So where does this leave us? It leaves us with a format with a lot of potential-potential that is not yet realized, but which may be in a matter of weeks or months. If you've been around a while, you'll know better than to hold your breath-but pay close attention."


B_JM wrote on 4/5/2005, 9:37 AM
well i can tel you one thing - the production rental house i use can not keep these things in stock

they are THE HOT rental item right now with the recorder package .... they also offer a xpri + z1 rental package..

BillyBoy wrote on 4/5/2005, 9:49 AM
That's a pretty good comment.... a lot of potential-potential. Which is how I feel. I've been around the block a few times. I've seen it all before. While HD is the future and the next logical step, like with other emgering technologies before it, its still very early in the game and I for one aren't about to run down the street waving by arms madly trying to jump on the latest bandwagon.

I can remember when having two floppy drives on your PC was considered the latest and greatest, then a 1GB hard drive, then digital cameras. And so it is with HD cameras, HD TV's and such today. What you think is today's latest and greatest will be tomorrow's junk. Anybody want to buy a Zip drive? Those were the hottest thing to have above five years ago. Held a massive 200MB. Surenly nobody ever could fill up more than a few of those.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/5/2005, 10:03 AM

Brian, I don't deny they're "hot," but to what end?


BrianStanding wrote on 4/5/2005, 10:38 AM
This is where I think Sony's strategy of designing a camera that will store in HDV and down-convert to SD DV on-the-fly will really pay off. This will potentially let people shoot their project now in HDV, and finish/distribute in SD. Then, if you're lucky, someone with money and high-end editing power may pay to have it re-edited and re-released in HDV. If you're not lucky, you can just wait until computing power/hardware and plug-ins mature and come down in price so you can re-edit yourself.

I haven't seen any yet, but I'm betting HDV on even a 1280x760 LCD projector (anyone want to bet they're will be some inexpensive 1920x1080 projectors at NAB?) looks a darn site better than SD DV. I bet you start seeing festivals and microcinemas adopting the HDV format as an exhibition format before too long.
JJKizak wrote on 4/5/2005, 2:34 PM
I think in these days that "hot" means as hot as "humoungous" meant large in the 70's.

JJK
farss wrote on 4/5/2005, 2:51 PM
How many of our clients are delivering HDCAM from Z1 footage, none that I know of. How many of our clients are hiring our PD150s, very few since Xmas and the number is declining rapidly, usually only when we don't have any Z1s availalble.
Does this mean you should ditch your workable DV camcorders, difficult call, resale prices are already taking a serious nose dive as are the new prices, even the Z1 has gotten a bitcheaper. If you can continue to deliver saleable product using what you've got I agree no need to make a huge leap into still murky waters.
However now would be a very good time to start putting a toe in the water. The day your clients start demaning HD content is NOT the time to start thinking about it. You need to be in a position to be able to say 'yeah, no problemo, here's what it'll cost", becuase if you're not in that position you can bet there'll be a guy down the road that is.
Bob.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/5/2005, 7:45 PM

You need to be in a position to be able to say 'yeah, no problemo, here's what it'll cost", becuase if you're not in that position you can bet there'll be a guy down the road that is.

That may well be the case where your are, but it's just not happening here. And two prime movers and shakers in the industry here (Wilt and Jackman) are suggesting the same. What else can I say? They're reading this the same way I am.

No, now would not be a "good time to put a toe in the water," for us. There are still far too many variables, too many loose ends yet. And this is exactly what both articles are talking about.

For example, Jackman say, "In my Digital Filmmaking workshops, I ask some pretty tough questions about why someone with a limited budget would want to shoot traditional HD, given the large additional costs over DV. The answers range from knee-jerk to well thought out. Many want to shoot HD just because it's the cool thing to do, but have not counted the cost or really evaluated the options. Those who have put a little more thought into it say, 'So we can bump it to a 35 mm film print.' Those who've really thought it out and priced a good film print say, 'So we can preserve the option of going to film if we get a distributor.' The last response is really the only viable one if your budget is less than half a million dollars. But even to these answers, I pour the cold dose of reality: The last I checked, less than 5 percent of finished, fully funded films make it to theatrical distribution. And because most of the other options (DVD, broadcast) are still SD, why not shoot the best SD you can afford rather than reaching for HD-and possibly stretching both budget and technology further than they're ready to go?" No one can deny these are valid points!

And Wilt suggests, "HDV is an exciting development. It's fun to work with. HDV clearly makes sense for certain niches--HD news, B-roll and 'crash cam' footage in HD documentaries, special-venue production and display. But before you invest significant resources into the format, make sure it meets your needs. You may still get a bigger bang for your buck with standard-def DV equipment and workflows if your final output is in standard definition, as most deliverables still are--even in The Year of HD." Most would agree this is a common-sense approach.

The reality is SD is far from dead, no matter much we'd like it to be. As Jackman said, the medium has "a lot of potential," but it hasn't fully matured, not yet.