Its a good deal because now Adobe includes all of the master sets for free. And you can still get it in Production Premium without having to buy the Master Collection. I sprung for the entire master collection at $1399 but since found out as a teacher i can get it for $999 and went that route.

What I'm interested in is how much DVRack has been integrated or if its only a link inside Premiere that triggers the external program.

That was my point in one of the other threads

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=517871&Replies=12

They took Ultra and it probably didn't get much of an update and just slapped an Adobe logo in there and we will have to wait another year before there is anything new about it. If they had not bought Ultra there would be new Virtual Sets by now and the kind of features we were all looking for. I am really bummed, Eventually Adobe will maybe do something with this (hey I would love to be wrong on this) but chances are they just turned it into the Stepford Application!!!!!!

TomE

What a crock! I knew this would happen. That really screws those of us who own Serious Magic's Ultra.

If Adobe dried up and blew away tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me a bit in the least. They are undoubtedly the greedest software manufacturer on plant Earth. They're worse than Microsoft ever thought of being.

I can understand the frustration but did you really think Adobe was going to have new offerings for a company they just bought? Be realistic for a moment. It wasn't until a year ago that they started to integrate Macromedia products and that was mid development cycle.

Adobe's only obligation to us Ultra users is to continue to provide tech support and assistance with Ultra. Its their product now. It sucks there haven't updated much if anything but I don't think this will be the case the next time around.


Look back in some of my old posts where i said Sony should have partnered with SM or bought them to leverage the two products. Some of the responses I was scoffed at and ridiculed. Adobe did just that and picked up two awesome apps in the process. Now Adobe offers that functionality OnLocation now and keying with Ultra for quick keys.

Like it or not, Adobe has just announced an amazing one stop shop for indie producers/editors/videographers. Adobe is out with BD support before Sony which also looks bad. Sony has been just happy to be an NLE and a simple DVD authoring company with some great audio tools. Adobe set out to be the end all stop on tight integration.

I still love Vegas but it will be hard not change over fully on more serious projects especially with all the integration Adobe offers. Vegas will still be excellent for quick editing. But Sony's keyer is sub par at times IMO and Ultra could have only helped improved it. Sony dropped the ball on that one.

The only thing I would still like is that Video Wall set. But hey, I just bought DVRack this year and Ultra2 late last year and get nothing in the upgrade from them either other than integration.

Until Sony steps up and addresses this lack of features or services, Vegas users will always be exposed to the Adobes of the world coming in and buying software that they use and depend on and sacrifice regular updates and true tech support.

That doesn't change my opinion of Adobe. Can you spell g-r-e-e-d?

What businesses arent greedy these days seriously? Professional tools for professional users. Its hard to think that anyone worth their salt in editing or compositing cant make their money back on the first gig used on. But its not like Adobe locked out users of any of their current products (except Ultra 2 and DvRack.) You can upgrade to any of their bundles just by owning a previous product. Surely upgrading After Effects and Photoshop alone would come out to the upsell prices.

The prices were way more than I expected but my abilities have grown tremendously over the last year and all these tools can do is provide me a further chance to grow more. Ill still use Vegas and Excalibur/Ultimate S for multi-camming and quick lower thirds and After Effects for major compositing.

Man, I too am glad I got Ultra and HDV Rack before...all this.What a shame for someone who wants a great keying program for the Money will have to buy all that other software after that time. And Im sure the current bugs in Ultra will not be address in an update only a new version for $$.

Makes me really appreciate all the updates companies like SMS and CIneform provide in a years time...

The primary issue I have from a personal standpoint is, I don't know if my earlier Ultra 2 I bought directly from SM (and the MSLs) will continue to be activation-supported by Adobe... I am concerned that as I upgrade my pcs, it's going to be a matter of "buy the $2499 Adobe package and stay in the upgrade cycle for life" or lose activation support... Adobe's said they wouldn't support SM-bought Ultra after Jan 07, so I need to find out the situation..

I (we, current SM Ultra owners) will likely need to at least buy the $199 upgrade Ultra version from Adobe to retain activation support for U2 in years ahead, I need to find out the answer, I'm asking on the SM forums. That's buying it twice, what a rip... to maintain activation support.

Overall it sounds like I can't continue to use the Ultra 2 I bought say later this year or next year, when I upgrade pcs again, unless I'll continue to get activation support for it, and I doubt that it'll be maintained over years to come etc for former SM customers like myself.

And it *completely* shuts out the new folks who want to try using ultra-keyed video in their small-biz websites, as they won't be able to afford a $2500 software program set of course.

silver lining: that's good for me/us from a competitive standpoint, as my competitors (mostly small-biz websites) won't likely be able to compete against my video salesletters... but it's not good, big-picture, for everyone.

This greedy move completely defeats the sales/marketing appeal of Ultra, which was that it put high-end chromakeying in the hands of everyone.... now Adobe's shutting out all but video professionals and/or bigger businesses that can pony up the whopping $2500 expense for the new Adobe creative package.

What a loss to the video community.

Ken

It can also be a big gain for the community as well. With Adobe's cash and developers, we could very well see a more integrated app with Ultra. Considering Adobe probably has the biggest share of graphic professionals, I can even see artists sharing sets they create them selves and share on the download center.

Adobe will still provide activation for its products even after the product is discontinued. It states so in its EULA. If at a time activation servers are taken down or removed, Adobe has promised to provide a work around for activation.

The little video guy can still get in on the game without spending $2500. $2500 is for everything....design, print, web, and video. Its everything Adobe has. OnLocation and Ultra come with Production Premium $1699 and also with Master Collection $2499. if you own any Adobe product, the prices go down even further. Own creative suite or production studio, upgrade goes even lower.

Adobe has products for hobbisyts or non-professional (elements). Adobe is offering a complete editing studio complete with compositing, keying, photoshop, BD authoring (Im sure there is a hefty license in the price), etc...

Compared with Avid systems and FCP, the prices are right in line if not cheaper when you figure in the additional hardware costs to get decent performance. Adobe is trying to push into the professional realm, something Sony should have been doing as well. Sony had fallen asleep at the wheel.

Add to it that some of the smaller videographers could cut major costs off the price with academic discounts. Audit a course at the local community college on a business class which will help them in their business plus provide them over 60% discount for the bundles.

There are ways to overcome greed if one is sensible about it.

Well I got the local Adobe newsletter only a few hours ago.
They're putting on a full roadshow in 4 Australian cities, they certainly get 9/10 for effort. When I look at what you get for the money it's hard not to be attracted and I for one have disliked Adobe for a very long time.
What's more interesting is they seem to be going after the FCP market as well, that's going to be a clash of titans. Apple seem to have dropped the ball more than anyone of late so Adobe could attract a lot of users if they get it right.

farss, I think you are right about Adobe targeting the FCP crowd. With Apple introducing Aperture, Adobe considered that a shot across the "front yard". I expect Adobe sweet talking the "Fusion and combustion" groups for more high-end packages arrangements. "Fusion" has a strong present in the big studios, so Adobe complete product package would be a lot stronger that Apple's if the big kids could work out a alliance. CS3 shows signs of more thought-out design, so Adobe may have a real plan. I have always thought Bridge was poorly design, Lightroom was a big improvement vs Bridge.

If Red and vegas work better together, that would be a big step. Of course, adding PS layer control or Corel Layer control would be big!. And plug-ins.............

Patrick, not everyone needs to buy a battleship just to go fishing.

What also bugs me is that it looks like us old-time Ultra users are now not able to maintain an upgrade path to future versions of Ultra (3 etc) and new MSL libraries unless we pay up $2500 for the full version of adobe products.

That's not what I signed on to when I bought Ultra, I'd expected that my initial $2000 investment in Ultra 1/2 , MSLs etc would be the main purchase, and that I'd get an upgrade path to be able to buy new versions like most software companies have.

It also looks like I won't be able to activate the software I paid for with new hardware upgrades I make to my system in years ahead, as Adobe's said they weren't supporting SM-bought versions of Ultra in the future. Hopefully they'll continue activation support, but if it's like how Adobe did w/CoolEdit2K etc, they won't support registered users from the acquired company's software after the first year.

Can I afford the $2500? I suppose, but I don't want all that extra software. I'd much rather buy another render pc or whatever. And many of my colleauges, heck in fact Most of the internet marketers I know, except for the "big guys", can't afford a $2500 price tag just for software. I expected to be able to upgrade my Ultra program individually, not being forced into buying a whole big bundle.

That would be like if Sony required all Vegas users to also buy a "bundled" version only, to get Vegas 8, with $$1800 of other sony software you were forced to buy (but didn't need) just to be able to use Vegas. How would that feel?

Ken

Adobe's said they wouldn't support SM-bought Ultra after Jan 07,...

That's the real issue! Both Serious Magic and Adobe have totally ignored the current Ultra customers. Neither has shown any form of loyality or appreciation for the thousands of customers that put Ultra where it is today.

Serious Magic has said, "Screw you, customers, we're making a ship load of money on selling this app to Adobe. We don't care about you. You're on your own."

Adobe has said, "Screw you, customers, we've just bought this app and we will not honor your purchases/licenses from Serious Magic. We're gonna make a ship load of money by forcing stupid, gullible customers to buy our package, if they want Ultra, whether they need the other apps or not. We don't care about you. You're on your own."

Few, if any, care about the customer any more.

Sounds to me like that leaves a gaping hole in the marketplace for someone else to fill. As far as I know SM held no patents on the tech and they're not alone in having sophisticated keying tools, all that set them apart was the price point.
As for the virtual sets, well they always looks a little too virtual for my tastes but obviously there was certainly a demand there.
I suspect the issue SM run into was a pretty common one for software companies, once you've sold your product to everyone that's going to buy it your income stream is largely gone. What irks me is this current rash of DRM systems that relies on who you bought the software from still being around so you can continue to use the product that you paid for, although I seem to recall some ruling that permits the breaking of DRM systems in such cases, it'd be interesting to see how that'd pan out in this case.

Bob.

"That would be like if Sony required all Vegas users to also buy a "bundled" version only, to get Vegas 8, with $$1800 of other sony software you were forced to buy (but didn't need) just to be able to use Vegas. How would that feel?"

They did the exact same thing with DVD Architect 4. cant buy it separately can you?

They did the exact same thing with DVD Architect 4. cant buy it separately can you?

That's not the same thing, Patrick, and a very poor comparison at best.

Ken was saying, 'What if Sony bundled Vegas, DVDA, Soundforge, Cinescore, ACID, and CD Architect together?' You either bought the whole kit and kaboodle or you bought nothing.

It's stupid and it's greedy, pure and simple, and no amount ill-conceived cheerleading is going to change that fact.

How is that a poor comparison Jay? Because of the smaller number of products?

Adobe is not saying you have to buy the whole kit and kaboodle. Last I saw they offer two different bundles that included the products at different price points. If you add up all of the costs with Ultra and the master sets, its nearly the same cost of the entire mater collection for a new user. For older users, thats just the way business works.

Nothing says Adobe has to support a product that a com pany they bought sold previously. Most do it as good will to their customers but nothing forces them to.

It doesnt bother me at all because I have several ways through academic and straight upgrading from retail that will prevent me from having to pay the full amount but then again, I have supported each program financially that provided me the cheaper upgrade path. So forgive me if I dont feel sympathy for those that havent kept up with the Adobe line.

Maybe its greedy but its their product and they can dictate what they do with it now regardless of how stupid others think it is. You have a choice, buy it or dont. Worried about future activations, then sell it off and make it someone else's problem.

Patrick, you never cease to amaze me.

whys that? because i have a differing opinion?

No, because you've shown, again, your true colors. You don't care about anyone or anything else. All you care about is Patrick Masters.

Thats kind of a jerk thing to say. At no point did I say that. i said that the situation isnt no where as bad as the doom and gloomers say it is. i could see if Adobe took the product and only offered it in a the $2500 bundle. But they havent.