Hi John,

How about the audio quality between Sony and Harman?
Are they similar ?

Then I am going for the sony.

;-))

How about the audio quality between Sony and Harman?
Are they similar ?

Then I am going for the sony.
============
Yes they are. The speakers will make a bigger difference as long as there is enough clean power to drive them properly. Don't get speakers that are too "low efficiency" (require more power to drive them).

Here are some reviews on the Sony receiver:

Sound and Vision

Engadget.

Gizmodo

Discussion on the AVS forum

John

You might want to look at NAD just to compare. I have the T763 ~$1100. US. No HDMI, so that might be a deal breaker, but very good sound and under rated power, it has a very quite fan to keep things cool. Probably not an issue if you have active speakers. I had bought a Marantz that I returned for the NAD because the marantz over heated with my 5 NHT speakers.

NAD... interesting brand Jeff, the T763 looks interesting.
I have not heard much of it before.

Can you give me anymore info on why you have gone for the NAD?

And suppose that you 'had' to choose between the Sony or HK model above which one should you choose?

You might also want to check the "Klipsch" forum, a place where they debate the use of $5000.00 hookup wires.

JJK

No doubt the receiver price they will be talking about will start at $50.000 ;-D

This can get very long winded, but IMO the receiver is the most important component. 2 years ago when I put together my home stereo, I spent alot of time on AVS and ecoustics forums. I was looking at $800. Onkyo, Denon, Sony, Marantz, HK. Wanted the HK because of looks and power, but a bit more$, went with the Marantz, and as I said it over heated, so I returned it thinking I needed more power and maybe a fan, since it was in a cabinet. I had some brand loyalty, because I had an NAD component for my first stereo in 1979. I was looking for something around $800. but ended up spending $1200 for the NAD, and at that price even considered a Rotel. At the tme I read alot of negative for Sony kinda similar to bose critics, however since then I have seen alot on Sony in high end setups.

It is really best to match your reciever with your speakers, and I had testimonials from other NAD/NHT owners, including someone at NHT, so I guess that was what sold me. I bought everything online except the NAD, I had the firmwear updated once and for that reason I was glad I bought it at a local store.

HTH

Jeff

The Panisonic XR-25 is what I have and it has worked great for the last 4 years and it has a fan for ventilation. I would get one now though that has HDMI through put. The old XR-25 has component as the highest through put.

I have a 20 year old true 600 wpc NAD that is incredible but its only two channel and when they went to 5.1 they split the power between the camels and NAD is now underpowered. I moved to Yamaha CinemarDSP line for the sound and LFE and keep the NAD for the main channels. Because nearly all affordable receivers are underpowered if I was doing this again I would get individually powered speakers and a NAD preamp OR get TWO or THREE (or FOUR with presents) high-powered old (and now very cheap) high powered stereo amps.

I have the T763 ~$1100. US. No HDMI, so that might be a deal breaker
==========
That is a deal breaker especially for that kind of money.

HDMI is essential as an interface for today and in the near future especially for HD devices.

The Sony ES series of electronics are built like the older receivers and audio electronics were built so I would not be hesitant about that receiver. As I said, the Harmon Kardon receivers have NOT been as reliable as other brands.

Have you looked into the Onkyo products?

John

I am not sure I understand the question. But if you have active (amplified) speakers then all you really need is a preamp/decoder. Why pay for many channels of amplification when you are not going to use the amps built into a reciever?

What active speakers do you have? What kind of sub?

edit - maybe something like this, however I don't think it has HDMI
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/704rotel/

I would reccommned buying a used piece of gear and save yourself a bundle of money. There no moving partis in these things so very little can go wrong. try this site, it is very reputable, full of anal audio geeks that worship their gear (read- treat it well)

http://www.audiogone.com/

"Posted by: totally lost

You are correct about the amplifier part I am probably not going to use it much.
Because I am using it as a pre-amp decoder/ a very important thing I do require is a volume knop by which I can control all the channels output.

The speakers are powerd by 5 Crown amplifiers stacked up away in a rack.
So I dont want to change the volume knob one by one to change the volume on all amplifiers.
So by having a main volume/gain knop on the preamp-decoder I can change all the input volume at once.

The reason that I did not mention the speakers or the amplifiers is because I wanted to talk more about the Receiver/pre amp/decoder more than other materials.

The speakers are from JBL with 15 Inch drivers, and the Sub woofers are fitted with 18inch drivers

All powerd by the Crown amplifiers.

So the decoder would come in between the DVD player and the amplifiers.

Ofcourse I would love to have a real Dolby Decoder, but thats just above my budget.

I do like the Rotel though you have mentioned looks interesting.


Edit extra:

Beautiful machine (design wise) indeed.
So now I ask myself.
Beside that it has no video functions/ power amplifier as the Sony.
Audio quality-wise:
I wonder how it could be better than the Sony?

It does cost about 800$ more than the Sony.

v_gts,

I just wanted to give you an example of a preamp/processor. Whatever you do please don't get a receiver, It would be a huge waste of money for inferior components and playback. Start looking into pre amps/processors. I can't stress enough the sonic differences that you will gain from going with a pre/pro. Look at NAD, Rotel, B + K Components, Adcom, Acurus, Sim Audio. There's a lot more out there, but this part of audio is not my area of expertise.

A buddy of mine is the editor for the Buyers Guide - Ultimate A/V. I have lots of other audio reviewer/geek friends who cover this type of gear. I am a 2 ch guy myself so I don't now too much about the home theatre scene.

I'll ask my buddies what they recommend. I am more than happy to do the homework for you. I just want to give back to a forum user. But please give me your required features.

HDMI
1 Volume control for all speakers
Dolby Digital (AC3) they have a super duper DD to what is it called? SUX......sorry I digress ; )
DTS
BTW do you want to be BD, HD-DVD compatible? Then you will need the lossless Dolby and DTS decoders. Well actually you won't need them. Because you player should do it for you.

What other features do you need?

Wow thanks 'totally lost ',
As a little reward I will post a lot of photos of the hal when it is in the work process ;-))

Actually I really do agree with you about pre amps/processors.

- I don't need a 'receiver' doing its best to output much power.

- I need a processor doing its best on processing. ;-))

Audio:

- 7.1 Total channels

- Dolby decoder I use the most, especially because of Vegas.
Dolby Digital EX (Extra two channels on the back)

- DTS ES too ofcourse ;-))

- All channels pre-out ,speaks for it self I guess.

Volume knob - Heavy duty.
I play with it allot, with presentation etc.
Have thought about a mixer panel instead, but its hard to get a panel that controles more than 8 channes parallel.

---------

Video:

I am going to use a beamer (HD in the very near future).
So making it HD ready is a good thing.
BD, HD-DVD compatible.
Sound and visual wise.

The most things I noticed on the Sony is the HDMI/ upscaller support for multiple HD formats 720 and 1080 etc.
That was actually the only few differences compared to some lower models of Sony.

- If possible light tinted/ or silver in color.

- Last but not least Arround $1000

Here below I have pasted the specs about Sony.
I am sure your buddy could use it as a base.

The power amplifier part can be discarded ofcourse
;-)).

----

STR-DA5200ES 7.1 channel surround sound A/V receiver.
-
Audio

Impedance: 8 Ohm

Channel Power Rating: 120 Watts X 7 Amplifier Power (8 ohms, 1Khz, 0.7% THD)

Sound Fields: Cinema - 4; Music - 8; Auto Format Decoding - 12; 2 Channel - 1

Zones: 3 Zone/3 Room

Tuner Type: Auto Tuning, Direct Tuning, Station Name, Presets 30/30/30 (XM/FM/AM)

Inputs and Outputs

S-Video Input(s): 5 (1 Front, 4 Rear)

S-Video Output(s): 3 (2 Rear/1 Monitor Out)

Composite Video Input(s): 5 (1 Front, 4 Rear)

Composite Video Output(s): 3 (Rear-1 Monitor Output, 2 Video Outputs)

Optical Audio Input(s): 5 (1 Front, 4 Rear)

Optical Audio Output(s): 2 (Rear)

Coaxial Audio Digital Input(s): 3 (Rear)

RCA Audio Input(s): 5

RCA Audio Output(s): 2

Multi-Channel Input(s): 1 (Rear, 7.1 Channel)

Subwoofer Output(s): 1 (Rear)

AC Outlet: 2 (Rear) Switched

Antenna Terminal (AM Loop): 1 (Rear)

Antenna Terminal (FM 75 Ohm): 1 (Rear)

Headphone Output(s): Yes (Front- Gold)

Speaker Terminal Type: Screw Binding Posts (A & B)

HD Component Video Input(s): 3 (Rear)

HD Component Video Output(s): 1 (Rear)

HDMI™ Connection Input(s): 3 (Rear)

HDMI™ Connection Output(s): 1 (Rear) Repeater

Power

Power Requirements: AC 120V, 60 Hz

Power Consumption (in Operation): 480 W

Power Consumption (in Standby): 1 W

Audio Features

Digital Cinema Sound™ Technology: Yes

Dolby® Digital Decoding: Yes

Dolby® Pro Logic® II Decoding: Yes

dts® 96/24 Decoding: Yes

dts® NEO:6 Decoding: Yes

Dolby® Digital EX Decoding: Yes

Dolby® Pro Logic® IIX Decoding: Yes

Amplification Relocation: Yes

Dolby® Pro Logic® Decoding: Yes

dts®-ES Decoding: Yes

Convenience

AM/FM Memory Presets: 30 FM - 30 AM

XM® Connect and Play™ Compatible: Yes

XM® Memory Presets: 30

XM® Connect and Play™ Compatible: Neural 5.1 Surround Sound Decoding

Convenience Features

Sound Fields: Yes

A/B Speaker Switch: A / B / A+B

On Screen Display: Yes

Digital Cinema Auto Calibration: Yes (Mic- Mono)

HDMI™ Technology: Intelligent A/V Selector

Hardware

Remote Control: Yes- Advanced Learning/Pre Programmed

Speaker

Center Speaker Terminal: Yes

Video Features

Up Conversion: Yes (HDMI Up Conversion from Component, S-Video and Composite to 1080p)

Supplied Accessories

Instruction Manual

FM Wire Antenna

AM Loop Antenna

Size AA Batteries: 2

1 Way LCD Pre Programmed Macro capable Learning Remote Commander® Remote Control

1 Basic Remote Commader

Thanks again
Hope to hear from you soon.

v_gts

Here's the first answer I got. Unfortuantely I got the price point wrong and overall it's not not good news. Where do you live? Are you in the UK?

I am waiting on 2 more replies. Have you seen any Pre/pros above your budget that really get you excited? (I might be able to get you a deal)

Besides some really nasty jokes, here's the reply I got.

Since the main focus in mainstream home theater is AV Receivers, rather than separate preamp/amp combinations - which more of a high-end solution these days - in the below $1,500 price range an AV Receiver would be your best bet - However, there are two Preamp Processor units under $1,400 that may work, the Outlaw Model 990 and the Outlaw Model 970 - However, instead of HDMI connections, these units have DVI connections - which are compatible with HDMI via adapter cables - but since DVI only transfers video and not both audio and video, like HDMI does - you would have to connect an additional digital or analog audio connection between your source component and the Preamp/Processor.


Here are the two Outlaw units:

Outlaw Audio Model 970

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/970.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/970_gallery2.html


Outlaw Audio Model 990

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990_gallery3.html

totally lost,

Beautiful machines!
I wonder what the main differences are between those two?

I live in the Netherlands (not too far from UK ;-))

Unfortunately I cant find any info about dealers here in the Netherlands.

The Outlaw Audio 990 might just be the preamp I've been looking for to replace my venerable Sony TA-E2000ESD. Thanks for the links.

John

V,

Another friend called back and basically said the same thing. Pre/pros are more high end and there wasn't much in that range. And then he went on to say that he really liked the Denon recievers and most of them had pre outs that you could go directly to your amps.

Try this site, the Krell looks pretty interesting.

http://www.choice-hifi.com/index.asp?page=34&by=type#44

Still waiting for reviewer # 3 to weigh in, but I must say it's not looking good for that price point.

I can't read Dutch but maybe these publications would help you find something.

http://www.vi-fi.nl/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.vi-fi.nl/

http://www.hvt.nl/

I actually know the publishers of both mags, but I know they would be of no help. I'll try to find out about sources for the used market in your neck of the woods

edit - I pulled this from the outlaw site

Q. How does the Model 990 compare to the Model 950?

A. As a newer design, the Model 990 delivers a host of features that we would have loved to include on the Model 950, but simply could not due to the technology limitations when it was designed. Among these are advanced surround modes, Lip Sync Delay, and improved audio performance that makes the Model 990 is significantly quieter than the Model 950.

Q. Why does the Model 990 have DVI switching instead of HDMI?

A. At this time we believe that the more stable DVI format is a more appropriate choice, since it is well established and totally compatible with HDMI from a video standpoint. Unfortunately, HDMI is still a moving target, with the 1.2 specifications still awaiting final release. More importantly, there is a big unknown regarding the specifications of the ñnextî version of HDMI that will allow transport of Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD data streams. (Indeed, the actual specs for the two codecs, themselves, have not been released either.) At this time it is impossible for the Outlaws or anyone else to know if a hardware, rather than software upgrade will be required to accommodate those two new formats on HDMI and with existing DSP engines. Quite frankly, we preferred to select a viable digital video format that is useable today rather than risk a high-cost solution that appears not to be ready for prime time

I put a call into Outlaw on your behalf. If you could get a sweetie deal would you be interested in this unit? (990)

"I put a call into Outlaw on your behalf. If you could get a sweetie deal would you be interested in this unit? (990)"

Hmmm, how sweet?

If it's around my budget I dont see why not.

The main reason for choosing over the Sony would be because of the audio quality right?

V

I may be repeating some things I said in a previous post but really to avoid major disappointment if you need anything like a prosumer system then FORGET receivers. There is NO receiver with enough power to run 5 or 7 channels. You MUST have a preamp/decoder and separate amps per channel. Three high powered old technology stereo amps will give you multiple excess power over any receiver. One amp does the front, one the sound and one the center and LFE, or if you can afford another stereo amp the bridge it to run just the LFE. Please don't expect a receiver that is splitting its power between 7 channels to ever be able to run a LFE properly. You must have surplus power and mega headroom to get fidelity quality sound. There is just no other way for good sound.

Just to tell you what I have, I have a Yamaha RX-V4000 receiver that I use as the decoder/preamp and to run the center channel. Then I have two old big 600 w NADs to power the front and surround. This arrangement that you could set up for under $1000 will blow away any $6000 receiver.

I tried to run my Denon 7.1 100 watts per channel receiver on my Klipsch corner horns, Cornwall center, sub, and small side and surround rear speakers and there was not enough power. Had to run the old Denon 54 watt stereo receiver to feed the K-horns only slaved to the 7.1 and everything fell into place with the 7.1 feeding the center channel and the sub and the other small speakers. In the old days I would have purchased 8 100 watt mono amps and 8 pre-amps but what the hell, I didn't think that the people would lie to me. And when I say there wasn't enough power there "really" wasn't enough power.
JJK