A bigger cache usually doesn't do as much as a small bump in CPU speed, when it comes to Vegas.

But suppose for a second you go with AMD's performance nomenclature and assume that the 4800+ is 4.8/4.6 X faster than the 4600+. That's a speed difference of about 4.3%, for $85.

Restated differently, would you pay $1,976 to make your CPU twice as fast?

2- In about 18-24 months, computers will likely get twice as fast. So how often you upgrade is something you want to consider too.

AMd has intro new chip versions that will run with the faster memory subsystems, look for this.

AMd has intro new chip versions that will run with the faster memory subsystems, look for this.

Yeah, I would have bought that if it were available when I was upgrading.. My upgrade was prompted by a PC failure last February, no time to wait. The AM2 will allow you to use DDR2, including the faster 800MHz variety. And, I suppose, there will always be another upgrade available somewhere down the line (like Intel's upcoming Conroe?). It never ends...

I would still make the same suggestion: don't buy the top model. Get one a couple steps down, buy a good yet inexpensive air cooler, then clock it up to a slightly higher speed. My 4400+ is the first PC I've ever overclocked, but 200MHz didn't seem to be a dramatic enough jump to impact stability of the system. It's working beautifully!

Just my opinion (for what it's worth).

getting DDR2 is worth considering. The cost consideration of buying a couple levels down is worth considering if you have budget issues. But usually having the lastest, fastest, can be a pain in a production environment, but fun when everything works.

AM2 only benefits from DDR2 with 4800+ and up CPUs.

The lower speed AM2 CPUs ran at the same speed or SLOWER compared to the current Socket 939 CPUs in a review at Tom's Hardware.

For more money, you can get the low power versions though, with same speed.

4400+ is the optimum price/performance right now, even more so if you overclock.

Wow lots of good info and things to consider.
but a couple of questions...It looked to me like the cache both L1 and L2 were the same between the 4400 and 4800, but the 4600 was lower. So assuming you o'clock the 4400 and coolit you are getting close to an equivilent to the 4800. at least probaby in Vegas terms nothing really noticable would be gained from the 4800.
Just hypothetical: then does overclocking a 4800 work ? I mean can you go much over 2.4 Ghz with these things?

I need to get a second machine quick as I am working two locations and the second location laptop just aint cutting it. Time is a factor so I dont think that waiting for the AM2 and its compatible motherboards, is worth while for me. Im not sure just how much the DDR2 ram would make a difference w/ Vegas. 1-2 gigs of DDR ram has been fine for me with Vegas now.
I just hope that V7 doesnt come out with a feature that uses some new architecture that make a significant difference in preformance that a 939 core would not be able to take advantage of.
I agree with Glenchan that the $4$ isnt always best when going to the fastest possible. But the purchase will be for a system to last for a while so I just want the best performance poss. w/ a Dual core AMD I can right now at my budget.

Well, if you are considering upgrading again in the near future, ie., cpu upgrade, the AM2 with DDR2 will give you access to the new line of AMDs coming out in the near future, this will offer the best bang for the buck over the time of ownership. Since vegas does not require a lot extras, MB, Video card,.... should be able upgrade to new cpus and have good computing times. With 4-cores in the near future and x2s going to 5600+, DDR2 will finally will be able to show some muscle for the AMD line. Again each software version upgrade usually requires more power, too, a lot issues to consider when buying your hardware.

HAs anybody seen an actual release date of avail of them as wellas MOBO's?
As well as cost of AM2 vs 939 speed being equal?

the AM2 with DDR2 will give you access to the new line of AMDs coming out in the near future

I have heard this so many times, and gotten screwed an equal number of times when I fell for it.

What tends to happen is that there is a new CPU coming out, for the same socket, BUT it needs different support chips to do better than the old one. So your mobo is now dust anyway.

Better to let other people write history with their blood (trying the latest and greatest CPU/mobo/hard drive/DVD burner/media).

Then, after the blood has stopped flowing, you check who is still standing and buy what worked.

Nice to focus on your work rather than troubleshooting new technology...

AMD is making the AM2 pin design the facto for its new cpu chips. AMD has put a lot of afford in this design change for the OEM suppliers, ie Dell(new), HP, IBM, ...
The 939 design is on its way out. AM2 is long over due.
Coursedesign comments about "future designs" usually applies to cutting edge tech, the AM2 is not cutting edge, just matching Intel direction with memory chip interface designs.
AMD has always done a better job on microcoding hardware and memory cache design. So, AMD has been able to use cheaper memory chips and get great results.
But now cpu speeds are increasing, plus with x2 and x4 designs, the old memory chips will start to become a serious performance issue, so, DDR2 will soon help boost performance. AMD will be adjusting prices as Intel pushes new product. So, buy a x2 that will meet your needs at a minimum, and buy a better x2 as the price war starts heating up.

AM2 is overdue in the sense that DDR2 RAM is going to be cheaper than DDR with a year.

Jumping on the AM2 bandwagon now with anything other than a 4800+ CPU results is no performance gain, or even a performance loss with the slower CPUs that can't take proper advantage of DDR2, per THG's practical tests.

And the 4800+ is not overclockable apparently, they've hit the limit of 90 nm.

AMD has really caught up to Intel's pricing now, and i some cases they're even higher. No automatic money savings anymore, just performance and heat savings. Even if Intel drops their prices, I think AMD will only follow, and only barely.

As long as AMD is offering a better product than Intel, which looks like it will be the case for at least another 9-12 months and conceivably another year on top of that, AMD will be able to sell all the chips they can manufacture without cutting their prices below Intel.

X2 has been with us for a long time, X4 looks like spring I believe, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it wanting new support chips to function best.

BTW, the current top-of-the-line nVidia nForce5 chipset for AMD X2 is currently figured to be the most advanced available today, more advanced than anything from Intel...

And the Asus A8N-32 Deluxe is approved by Blackmagic for their PCI-E Decklink cards. It may be a long while before the first AM2 board is approved by them, and that approval is quite reassuring especially having seen what was experienced by those who disregarded BMD's approved configurations.

All this talk about the processor, but don't overlook the most important part - the motherboard.
If you're serious about a DAW/AV setup, be very picky and careful about your mobo purchase.
Consider PCI slot needs, chipset (which means researching all chipset problems with regards to a serious daw (or possibly a/v) system, how pci-e/sli mobos might affect your daw/av sys and components you need
Read on all forums you can, etc).

Times are changing (and not for the best IMO, in terms of an excellent a/v mobo). SLI = good for gaming, not good for certain content creators.
PCI-e competes with PCI devices, so it's possible some people may encounter issues with their pci devices.
95% of new mobos cater to the gaming crowd (PCI-e, SLI). Add to that, the number of PCI slots being seriously limited for those who may need to add their cards of choice.

* And I'm not a fan - at all - of usb/firewire audiocard/I/O interfaces, etc., I need more than the basics these fwire/usb products provide with this studio.
For a basic audio/video studio these can work out ok, but not for my needs.

So the choices for the perfect media system mobo are slimming, while gamers are more than happy, the daw user may not be 99% of the AM2 mobos fall into this "gamer" category, so the latest and greatest "might" not pan out for some a/v users.

AMD duals and Skt 939 mobo's:
I have the AMD X2 4400+ (not ocing - not really too much of a need to OC with this thing) with a slightly older Gigabyte G8NS Ultra-939 AGP mobo (no pcie/sli, plenty of normal pci slots, 4 sata, firewire/usb2.0...nvidia nforce 3ultra chipset. Just a near perfect mobo for a solid a/v or daw system.
Excellent mobo but no longer available (I had to buy a 2nd one as backup I like it that much).

I'm hoping manufac wake up and start cranking out these necessary designs geared for content creators (pci slots, agp, but new onboard func/features) to ammend to the new current mobos geared for the gamer/basic home system market.

Everyone has to decide for themselves. But, if I read correctly, I think epirb's original objective is to get something that is a high performer today so he can get to work with it. Sounds like it's not a hobbyist application where the new tech and its problems and delays are worthwhile risks.

After reading the review on Tom's Hardware Guide, I am agreeing with Coursedesign that you'll only benefit from this new AM2 architecture if you buy the 4800 or better. And that's only if you buy the newest, fastest DDR2 memory.

For considerably less $$, you can buy the existing 4400+ and overclock it to basically equal or better the performance of the stock 4800. (With OC'd 4400 you'll have the same clock speed, same cache size, and a 10% higher memory frequency). And, using the existing 4400 instead of an AM2 means you won't be beta testing the week-old bios of a week-old motherboard release (that has a new, unseasoned chipset). You won't be interrupting a job to surf the forums, driver download sites, and newsgroups in the hope that you can find a solution to the problem you just found.

Also, considering that some of the AMD Athlon X2 line has been introduced in the last 6-7 months, I wouldn't be thinking that it's a dinosaur on the verge of extinction. Any more than I would suggest that HD or Blue-Ray have made the DVD player obsolete (yet)...

I'm hoping manufac wake up and start cranking out these necessary designs geared for content creators (pci slots, agp, but new onboard func/features) to ammend to the new current mobos geared for the gamer/basic home system market.

The company that makes the DFI Lan Party (I think that's what it's called) mobo makes a few models with the "legacy" interfaces (AGP, PCI, etc.).

DFI Lanparty:
Yes, a good choice for most (if we're talking the agp board). But finding the right dfi lanparty is/is going to get slimmer and slimmer (hence my point - I really hope they start bringing back these designs).
Unless you're just gaming, there was NOTHING wrong with the AGP interface, why it has to completely be replaced with pci-e/sli is ridiculous - it's about a new design with $$ in mind. Limited pci slots is just as painful to see.

DFI isn't my first choice (picky with ram and some stability issues unless you tweak correctly), but it's def up there in choices for mobos for content creators looking for a good 939 for their amd dual.

Here's some current choices for the dual-ch/fsb 1000 939 mobos that might be better suitors for a solid daw/av sys (newegg)
*note - avoiding any VIA mobos (yes - still):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135216

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128307

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813123263

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127223

Most, if not all AM2 boards (IMO) fall into a "possible problem" mobo for pro daw/content creators (great for consumer/gamers though).
There needs to be more design choices for newer board.
Add in the fact that going dual-core (x2's) might be the better route for most here (content creation).

>>>Also, considering that some of the AMD Athlon X2 line has been introduced in the last 6-7 months, I wouldn't be thinking that it's a dinosaur on the verge of extinction<<

No, it's not the proc that's becoming the dinosaur, it's the best mobo design for daw/ av work that is slimming down to nothing.

Google pci-e issues with pci audio boards, sli issues with daw,etc. Some might fall into the category of F'd (or forced into using a rather limited fwire/usb i/o devicefor a daw).

Thanks for the great input Jay & jay and all others , youre right I do plan on making a purchase real soon..Like ordering monday.
And I think that from all your input thet the 4400 o'clkd is definately the way to go for me. And REALLY good info about the Mobo's too
i'm going to look closely at those links , like the Abit board.
I actually was thinking about a Mobo with SLI, but xtra PCi slots are definately nice to have. Plus seeing as I wont be doing any gaming this is strictly a editing machine with some sound work, and the fact that Vegas cant (at least right now, and no hint that will anytime soon) use the power of a big GPU. A good AGP card will work fine I think, just have to see if I can find a card capable of triple heads.
Have two cards in my other computer 1 PCIe and 1 PCI kind of a pain to set up and cal.

Not to get off from the CPU discussion too far but then do you think with the PCI real estate of one of those boards I would be better off with a good M Audio sound card instead of what I was palnning on going with a Fierwire 410.?
I do have occasional F/W issue with the 410 I have on the other machine esp. when mounting or unmounting external F/W drives.

Well,it's only in help, it's up to you in the end...

but judging from your words - "I won't be gaming" (bingo) I would like to steer you FAR clear of any of the newer pci-e/sli mobo's out there and point you to one on the list of links above (AGP/PCI Skt 939 boards) that work well with the 4400+ and dual-ch mem (avoiding any with VIA chipsets mid you(repeating that ;).

There are issues with PCI-e (anything) competing with the PCI bus, so I really suggest (for great daw/av sys with the 4400+ and your purposes) to stay the AGP course. if you're not gaming there's little to zero reason to move to pci-e, much less sli.

And hey, the ULi chipset mobos (couple of the ones I listed links at newegg) are working out very well for everyone. Don't count those out just because you're not sure of the chipset or name, take a serious look at them. Affordable and solid too, you can't beat that. Peep it over the Abit is what I rec. These type mobos (I fear) will be gone soon, and you might just be glad you got one.

We're talking stability and less hassles when building a solid daw, and the mobos on that list should keep a lot of possible problems at bay.
So with your 4400+, those boards will probably work out nicely for ya. They're missing very little of the "latest and greatest" of the newer mobos, but that ain't much.
That latest and greatest is PCI-e and SLi (possibly SATA3) - which is the whole reason you should AVOID for a solid daw.

GLuck

thanks Ive been known to have blood on my shirt from buying the bleeding edge stuff. but in this case I dont want to be futzin' with the quirks and learning curve. I think I even have an extra Nvidia dual head AGP so thats for the good advice I wasnt aware of the PCIe / SLI issues or the possible issues.
Lotsa PCI slots is definately more of what I want for 1394 and poss RAID card for external SATA. etc...
Will post with my planned set up before purchase in case anything or combo is a red flag.
Again thanks for the help!!
Eric

>>>Lotsa PCI slots is definately more of what I want for 1394 and poss RAID card for external SATA. etc<<<

Well there ya go.

*it's not so much of a "learning curve" scenario here, more like avoiding as many possible "oh sh*t" scenarios.
Remember, these mobos I list still ARE high performers, they just happen to be much better for daw / av users. Gamers want that pci-e/sli high performance.

*I'd also like to steer you away from OCing - but hey, that's up to you. And believe me I'm an old OCr as well.
But let's look at it, you just won't see any "drastic" leaps in ocing the 4400 to 4800 (if you get there) and the wear on the hardware ain't worth it IMO. The 4400+ is plenty fast - just think SOLID with any daw sys ;) and you'll be set.

Try and find an AGP/PCI skt 939 DFI lanparty model for that 4400 as mentioned for better OCing options (not many around as many snatched them up, much like my K8ns ultra 939 mobo).


GL

What's wrong with PCI-E?

I see more and more things video going that way, like the new BMD cards. Also for GPU rendering it beats AGP hands down.

Bob.

>>>Not to get off from the CPU discussion too far but then do you think with the PCI real estate of one of those boards I would be better off with a good M Audio sound card instead of what I was palnning on going with a Fierwire 410.?
I do have occasional F/W issue with the 410 I have on the other machine esp. when mounting or unmounting external F/W drives<<<<

Hmm, well. "I'm" NOT a fan of fwire interfaces, they aren't there yet. I need more power and I/O (I rec live groups, jazz, funk, etc and have at times needed 16 to 24 in's. There's no way I would want to one day count on a fwire device for that, only pci audio cards can currently offer what I need for my studio.

I hate to keep steering ya, but I prob would not go for that 410 if you fit the above category (t depends on your usage and planned future usage). If you know you'll never need what i described, then it might help your decision.
For PCI, there's a lot of choices. One affordable ($199 I think), very functional/versatile, and great sounding card is the maudio delta 1010 LT, although I have and suggest the non-LT delta 1010's (with convrtrs off the card). but there's a lot of pci choices, I'd research more b4 buying.