OT: Another PD-170 problem...

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/23/2007, 9:15 AM

Hi,

Was at a shoot today, and found another problem with my PD170. A few weeks ago I discovered at problem with a brand new excellence tape. I had done some testing and at REW the camera suddenly comes up with an error I think it was 31:81 (not 100% sure on the 81) and the eject symbol was blinking and sound was beeping. I took the casette out and a small peice of tape, and inch or 2 was hanging out.
I did throw that tape out, and tested with another one - which was fine. Today that tape made almost the same thing. I changed to a DVCAM tape and everything was ok. I finished the shoot w/o probs in that direction.

I have now turned it in to Sony for service. A freind of mine (which is very competent reg. camera stuff) was sure it was the tape, but the servicedepartment at the company where I bought the camera said it could be the camera too, so I'm not sure.

Had a problem with whitebalance too, had to reposition a few times before it would whitebalnce correctly - have never had this before either, but it actually says in the manual, that if you cannot make the camera read the white and store it, you just have to use autowhitebalance. Not quite sure what that means though...

Well, now Sony can find out, and they might be able to fix my audioprob. too, and make a general checkup, cleaning etc.

The thing is that I have not used for that many hours although it is 2½ years old, but I know all things can break once i a while...

Hope it will not be too expencive :-(

/Ulf

Comments

randy-stewart wrote on 11/23/2007, 10:19 AM

Ulf,
I shoot with the PD-170 and your problem with the tape could stem from using different brands of tape (assuming you do). I read on this forum years ago right after purchasing the cam that different tape brands use different types of lubricants and sometimes they can build up on your camera heads and interact to cause sticky tape over time. The advisor recommended that one tape brand be used to avoid that happening. I've used only Sony brand tapes and have never experienced a tape related problem like you describe. Hopefully, that's all it is and a good head cleaning should fix it. In the future, you might want to consider using one brand of tape in your -170 to avoid that possibility. Hope this helps.
Randy

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/23/2007, 12:06 PM

Hi Randy

Thanks for your reply, mate.

I can tell you that I have ever only used "excellence" or "DV Cam tape" both from Sony, so I do not think it could be related, unless theese 2 tapes are different.

I will of course post the result next week when Sony comes with the verdict ;-) so that others might bennefit from it.

I am in the middle of a documentary-shooting, so they agreed to hurry ;-)

/Ulf

farss wrote on 11/23/2007, 1:51 PM

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/23/2007, 8:26 PM

Thanks for your input, Bob.

/Ulf

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/29/2007, 7:37 AM

The verdict came today.

The tape problem, 31?? flashing, beeping, and eject symbol flashing, sony cannot reproduce, even with a "faulty" tape provided by me, so it might be a rare problem or even gone.

My soundproblem appearing when " NR" is enabled will cost $2K, so I said thanks, but not hanks to that. I hear no difference when it is off now, and earlier when "NR" was on, so it does not matter to me.
Just have to pay for a cleaning and 1 hrs. work. a bid sad though, but hopefully I can use it now again.

/Ulf

craftech wrote on 11/29/2007, 8:28 AM

It's very unlikey to be a tape problemo. If you do manage to get lubricants mixed on the heads you'll have major tape droput issues and might need a professional head clean to unclog it. I've never heard of mixing tapes causing a tape tension problem so I doubt this what's wrong.
Leaving tapes in the wrong places can cause these kinds of problems if they get overheated in a car. The other possible cause of these problems is condensation although the Sony cams are pretty good at shutting down if they sense moisture.
As a general rule I never spool tapes in a camera, the transports just don't feel solid enough to trust. My M15 VCR I do trust, moreso than the DSR-11 it replaced.

Bob.
=======================
The explanation by Jan Crittenden at Panasonic (Secaucus, NJ) that has circulated for a few years all over the internet was not so much a problem with wet lubricants vs dry lubricants as it was in mixing wet lubricants with other wet lubricants. In other words wet-wet incompatibilities. What is formed is sometimes (depending upon the tapes involved) a gummy substance that can not only clog heads, but the other parts of the tape transport as well. The substance has been described by others as a "cement" which is a frightening word. This has prompted me to stick with one tape and one tape only even if I am shooting crap subject matter. In my case I chose Panasonic PQ. The reason Jan's post has been circulated on the internet for so long is because when videographers have written to the corporations or directly asked these questions about tape lubricants both Sony and Panasonic have been mum on the subject probably due to litigation concerns I would think. Jan's post is about all that is available with any credentials behind it.

If one uses a cleaning tape the cleaning tape brand should match the tape brand not the camera brand. The other thing no one seems to know is why cleaning tapes are only used in PLAY mode and not in RECORD mode.

Ulf,
If you are getting your camera back from Sony with a "cleaning" as you stated, now would be a good time to decide which tape you want to use for everything and stick with it.

John

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/29/2007, 10:28 PM

Thanks John.

I have decided. I use now only Sony Digital Master HDV63 for both my PD170 and XHA1. They might cost a bid more but I don't care, will put it on the bill to the customer.

/Ulf

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/30/2007, 6:37 AM

Just picked it up at Sony's and did some tests at home:

Now my strange soundproblem:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=557187
is gone totally - not a thing anymore, and the other fault wiht tape is gone too.
Maybe the taking apart and assembling again, cleaning etc. was enough - I don't know, but I'm a happy guy for now again :-)

Thanks again to all that has been so helpfull to me during this, especially you, Bob (farrs) - really apreciate all the knowledge I get in this community, and not only on Vegas.

/Ulf