OT: backlight & white balance issues

jdas wrote on 6/24/2004, 8:22 AM
I use a Sony Vx2000 for wedding shoots. Being new to this, I need help with the following:

1. How can I best tackle problems caused by strong backlight ? My 3 watt on-camera light does little to help.

2. Do I have to white balance with a card whenever I change locations ? (indoor/outdoor). Is there a more efficient way to do this ?

All suggestions welcome. Thanks.


james

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/24/2004, 8:26 AM
1. Either get a stronger light--very strong, or, maybe easier, definitely cheaper, change your camera angle and/or the subject's angle in order to avoid the strong backlight situation. Sometimes it can't be helped.

2. Yes, with each change in lighting--regardless of location--it is best do adjust your white balance. We're talking about a small step that takes only seconds that will make a major difference in your footage.

Jay
JackW wrote on 6/24/2004, 10:13 AM
And in situations where it can't be helped -- e.g., the bride and groom getting married in front of a west-facing picture window at 4:00 pm. -- use manual exposure and open up the camera's aperture until you have a good reading on the couple's faces. The background will be completely blown out, but you'll be able to see what the b&g look like during the ceremony.

You'll have to play with the iris setting to get the best balance between background and the subjects, but you can hit a pretty good compromise. It won't be pretty, but it's better than two black blobs in front of a lovely view of the lawn.

When you start working with the iris settings, be sure that the iris and auto gain are uncoupled. If you don't, the camera will change the gain as you manually change the iris settings.

It's because of situations like you've encountered that we ALWAYS went to the wedding rehearsal in the days when we did wedding videography. You can try different settings, shoot some tape, and show the bride and groom exactly what the problem is and how you propose to solve it, and get their input and feedback before you begin the shoot. That way there are no nasty surprises and they know exactly what they are getting.

Summersond wrote on 6/24/2004, 10:36 AM
Also, newer camera's (like my GL-2), have a setting for backlighting correction, so if you have that problem, it automatically corrects it for you. Still, the best thing is not to be faced with that problem in the first place (although sometimes it is unavoidable).
dave
jdas wrote on 6/24/2004, 8:44 PM
Jack,

You mentioned that the iris and auto gain be uncoupled. How do I do this ?
Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 12:02 AM
Summersond - "(like my GL-2), have a setting for backlighting correction" .. oh really? Is it "called" backlight correction or are you speaking of the vast array of manual settings we can call upon? I've got the XM2=PAL . . it is a super lil ole cammie .. backlight is taken care of by "blowing the background and opening up the Iris. Going to Manual "uncouples" the iris from the auto gain. I've done some tests on this and sure enough, if you aint in FULL manual mode you can see the Gain changing as the iris is changed .. well it would, wouldn't it .. However, using the XM2 I can preset settings and just click into that I want .. the XM2 comes with only One option of manually set presets .. .

It is a lot to get your head around .. but filming in Manual, once experienced, you ant go back to auto .. UNLESS it is a really tricky fast moving Run ;'n Gun affair where you don't have an option. DON'T use manual if it really isn't called for .. The most important thing is to GET the in focus stuff, as best as you can in the CAN! . . Weddings can be fraught with lighting issues .. AND there is a lot of pressure on you to get THE money shots:

1 - Bride arrival

2 - Bride walking down aisle with dad

3 - Couple doing the vows

4 - Exchange of rings

5 - The "signing" of the register

6 - Photo shoot outside

7 - Arrival at the Reception

8 - Cutting the cake

9 - First dance

. . . etc etc etc

Wedding videography, with all its multitude of lighting conditions, its sheer "event" type demands set on the videographer, the changes that can happen, the "length" of the day . . people a bit worse for wear with a few drinks down their necks! . . I think is one of the most stressful and demanding vid jobs out there. AND YOU'VE got many critics of your work at the end of the day AFTER the edit is done .. this is why I ONLY do second camera work for weddings .. I'll help out and do tall the energetic stuff . .no problem .. but taking on the work full time? oh .. nooooo....

Getting back to BACK light and W.B. - I had a really nasty reddish room, at Christmas, deck out with MORE red stuff .. the poor old cammie just saw .. RED! .. I W.B.ed as best as I could .. but the finished dallies weren't that good . . . I'm wondering what else I could have done to make it look a bit more "cooler"? Maybe some reddish cards? . . Any thoughts?

Best regards,

Grazie
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/25/2004, 6:40 AM
Grazie, just out of curiosity, how did you do the WB in the red room?

Jay
Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 6:42 AM
In the red room . .with a white surface . .
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/25/2004, 6:57 AM
How close to the red wall was the white surface you used?

The reason I ask is because the closer to the red wall you get, the stronger the red's influence (reflection) becomes on the subject. For example, having someone holding a white card in the middle of the room would give you a different result than if that person where standing next to the red wall when the WB was executed.

Just like using a bounce card for fill light. The strength (brightness) of the fill is determined by how close the card is to the subject being illuminated by it.

Jay
Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:00 AM
. . which would have been a good thing .. as this WOULD have produced a "cooler" colour .. . meaning .. . warm coloured cards make for cooler WBs and cool coloured cards make for warmer WBs - yes?

Grazie
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:09 AM
Yes.

Jay
Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:15 AM
. . . soooo .. to "fool" the cammie further I should have used a REDDER card/material .. yes? . .AND an external monitor, which should have been viewed in a "neutral" environment .. . gets trickier and trickier . . . G
jdas wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:37 AM
The manual says (to achieve a good WB) point the camera at a white card. How does coloured cards work ?

I simply hate this white card WB thing, especially when there are fast changes during the event. Once, I just pointed the lens at the ambient light and pressed the WB button. It looks OK. on theLCD. I wish there was an easier way to WB.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:58 AM
JD, check this out.

Jay
jdas wrote on 6/25/2004, 8:18 AM
Jay,

Interesting. I have a room full of matboards used for my framing business. Will test 'em out to see how these coloured boards work out.

I thank all for your valuable input.
Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 8:33 AM
Yeah, that's good .. play with the boards .. you'll be very very surpised .. . don't forget, your camera isn't as clever as you think it is .. In fact setting WB is in itself a "locked" option .. it is being done against a complex algorithm . . don't ask me .. it is BIG math . . .

Grazie
Summersond wrote on 6/25/2004, 10:19 AM
Hey Grazie, on the GL-2, when it is in program mode (but not full auto), if you press in on the multifunction dial on the back of the camera, there are different quick settings you can choose. The bottom one is backlighting. I used that one for several dance recitals this year, and loved what it did. It really brought the light levels down to where you could tell what the clothes looked like without washing them out. Granted it drops the exposuer levels 2-3 points at least, but it sure made the picture really look good without having to ride the manual exposure override.

dave
jdas wrote on 6/25/2004, 11:39 AM
Allow me to ask just one more question. Thanks.

If on full manual mode, what shutter speed should I choose for,say, a birthday party ? From my experience with still cameras, I understand the speed selected should match the motion involved. Does the same apply to video ?
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/25/2004, 11:41 AM
1/60 of a second.

Jay
Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 3:04 PM
"The bottom one is backlighting." . . oh really? Where is that? I can only see "Spotlight" .. .2 down from Manual .. Grazie
Cheno wrote on 6/25/2004, 5:19 PM
as far as white balancing.. it's always good to carry either a card or just a sheet of bright white printer paper. It only takes one time of not having something pure white in your room to balance against to get you to carry something.

Mike