OT: Big Ouches!

Coursedesign wrote on 1/3/2009, 3:16 PM
In the 1970s, Volvo paid a huge amount of money for a license to a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) design from DAF in Holland, just months before DAF announced a vastly vastly better "2.0" design for which Volvo had not acquired any rights. They had to buy the whole thing all over again.

In 2 005, Sony's PS/3 division ended up paying for the design of the processing power in Microsoft's Xbox360, while delaying their own PS3 release by a year. WSJ story here.

It was in the mid-1990s that Sony dropped Playstation into the console market [...] selling more than 100 million units. Its 2000 sequel, the Playstation 2, was an even bigger one.

Ouch indeed.

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 1/3/2009, 4:35 PM
Strange. I could of sworn that the 360's chip was a much better version of what the GameCube had.
John_Cline wrote on 1/3/2009, 4:51 PM
I'm going to have to give this one a big, "So what?" Why do you even bother to bring it up here, as some sort of "zing" to Sony on their own forum? (A forum which isn't even related to the PlayStation division.)

The X-Box is pretty much only a gaming console with no facility to play Blu-ray discs and if you spent the $200 for the add-on HD-DVD player, you can play a few HD-DVD discs.

The PS3 is a great multimedia device and one heck of a Blu-ray player. I've never played a game on mine and I use it daily.
apit34356 wrote on 1/3/2009, 5:36 PM
First, the story is totalling incorrect! the tricore and the cell are totally different designs with different, radically different instruction sets, with the only similarly is powerpc instruction in the cell single host core that manages the other 8 cores.
the Cell memory controller runs DDR3+ and the best for x360 is DDR2. The article fails to realize all designs are patented and can not be "manufactured" without approved. The cell is patented with IBM, Sony and Toshiba, while a number, limited number, of ic manufacturers has rights to the powerpc at different design levels. The Tri-core is an exclusive IBM powerpc design with an unique memory / caching subsystem, (more advance than Intels' caching, but simple to the cells), an requires permission by IBM to manufacture and have access to the ic layers "negatives". The fact is, Toshiba was the source of the cell manufacturing delay due to questionable changes to the layers' "negatives" concerning a processing technique they modified, I posted this information here over the last couple of years on this forum.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 1/3/2009, 5:38 PM
The X-Box is pretty much only a gaming console with no facility to play Blu-ray discs and if you spent the $200 for the add-on HD-DVD player, you can play a few HD-DVD discs.

It's more like the PS3 is the ONLY console that CAN play blue ray discs, nothing else can. The two far more popular ones can't, the portable ones can't, no info on what future ones will actually do. I'm sure what comes out in ~2-3 years will all be able to display HD on one way or another. Odds are nintendo won't bother playing movies but MS & Sony will continue to compete against the HTPC scene.
Coursedesign wrote on 1/3/2009, 7:44 PM
Why do you even bother to bring it up here, as some sort of "zing" to Sony on their own forum? (A forum which isn't even related to the PlayStation division.)

It had nothing to do with any one specific company (not Volvo either).

It was just a reflection on how easy it is to make a massive mistake like this. I nearly made a booboo like this at one time, but got saved by my intuition that told me to inquire about something that my boss did not want me to dig into, because he "thought it would be rude."

Those who fail to learn from history are bound to repeat it.

And John, how on earth did you get the idea that I was somehow criticizing the PS3???? Do you see even one word to that effect?

Apit, I don't understand a word of what you're saying. The point of the article (and the book) was that IBM/Toshiba licensed their design to several companies who were not aware of each other at the time.

apit34356 wrote on 1/3/2009, 11:20 PM
Coursedesign, the tri-core powerpc has no structure similar with the cell. The concept of a multi-core ic is not new and the argument that the joint IBM, Sony and Toshiba design created the MS tri-core design is really marginal at best. The fact the big three were investing into parallel computing concept was more the "hard fact" in the story. The real story was Intel had no ic designs that could match the design timeline of the big three and IBM highend ic work could delivery in a reasonable timeline a real product and MS was concern able being left behind. IBM already had a lot design time in multi core ics by 2000 that were used in their mainframe lines. A number of insiders believe that Toshiba "delayed" the cell to the benefit of MS and Intel. Once Toshiba teamed up with MS and Intel, their "work" seemed to become seriously sub-par and always months pass deadlines.

The funny part I think is, claiming the MS team of designers understood the total radical design of concurrent and parallel executing instructions in a true multi-core operating in "hardware" with a design that Bloatware fails in. The fact is, MS claimed to the world the X360 was easier to programmed because it was more of a standard design just with more cpu cores vs. the radical cell design.
If you think MS understands basic hardware design and manufacturing, just look at the failure rate of the X360 and $2billion+ re-investing into just repairs, of course, that was to protect the cash cow of the Internet Xbox live fees more than the gamers' hardware.

John_Cline wrote on 1/4/2009, 9:04 AM
With statements like, "delivering to Sony Corp. one of its greatest business failures", at the least, the post sure seems like an attempt to embarrass Sony. If that was not your intent, then I apologize. What exactly was the intent of your post and what does it have to do with video editing using Vegas?
Coursedesign wrote on 1/4/2009, 10:32 AM
John,

The statement about "delivering to Sony Corp..." was made by the Wall Street Journal, not by me. I guess I could have edited that detail out of the summary, but it just didn't seem like such a big deal.

My reflection in this post was about two mistakes made years ago by two companies (that could have been any companies), and I figured that there was a lesson in these to be learned and applied in far more humble circumstances by people in this forum.

What does it have to do with Video editing using Vegas?

Even say a wedding videographer has to be careful about the agreements he or she signs, to make sure that the legalese truly covers the intent of the parties.

I have been a Sony fan for nearly 40 years.

I just found my Sony Cube FM radio from ??? (early 1970s?), brilliant design. I'm still using two Sony professional DAT decks, two Sony pro headphones, two Sony pro microphones and a $20,000 Sony 2/3" broadcast D5 camera, and I got a job offer from Sony Japan with a very healthy salary.

You could certainly properly argue that posts of type "Seasonal Thoughts," "T -Shirts," "It's That Time of Year Again," "Happy Turkey Day," "Life is a pure B-I-T-C-H sometimes," and "Big Ouches" don't belong in a video forum.

Some people see those posts as a natural outcome of having a community of humans rather than androids.

Still, I would certainly be OK with lowering the ceiling a bit.

I never post anything for me, just whatever I think could potentially make a small contribution to somebody else.

As for which posts to read, that's what the subject line is for (when it's not abused with "I have a question" or equivalent).

This forum gives us a lot of freedom, but we could certainly agree here to skip the T-shirts, etc. if this was deemed offensive or inappropriate.

je@on wrote on 1/4/2009, 12:46 PM
Hey, the guy said it was OT. So what? Who made you the content police? Lighten up.
apit34356 wrote on 1/4/2009, 2:06 PM
While I think the article is spin for MS and Toshiba and smells "rotted to the core!" The OT subjects usually have some value to the forum in general. ;-) Coursedesign is a fan of Apple(BIG FAN) ;-) big I'm a big "Fan" of the technology and manufacturing...etc... so I do like Coursedesign and others( including our Canadian friend BLink ;-)) commenting and posting things that they find interesting. Sharing info and insight is a positive "thing". ;-) especially when they agree with ME! ;-)
Former user wrote on 1/5/2009, 9:21 AM
I have to agree with you John. I have a PS3, and a stack of games I never play (though my nieces and nephews love it). I use a PS3 in my workflow as a preview device for clients. I have network sharing on a secondary storage system ...effectively turning it into a media server. The PS3, through a 1Gb network (though I suspect even a 100Mb one would work fine), becomes my preview/player for clients. They sit in a comfy space and watch the most recent redner. I do the same for photography and audio.

I think of the PS3 as a MEDIA DEVICE, not a game console. And while that may be limited appeal, you have to admit that games like Little Big Planet (and others) look fantastic (and my nieces and nephews report that they're fun to play).

And yes, at home, my PS3 is an outstanding BluRay player (and for those who think the world is going to spontaneously start downloading movies from online services - we can barely deal with the load from spam...where is the bandwidth going to come from (and frankly, who wants to wait 20 hours for an HD movie to download?).

My favourite criticism, though, is that BluRay isn't worth it. I suspect these are the same people who don't have an HDTV. If you think HDTV is a shocking improvement from SD, BluRay movies are less compressed and much sharper than TV...in short...wicked-awesome. :-)