Don't forget the PS3 and the vast amount of gamers who are loyal to the PS systems. If they are willing to buy the PS3 (which I understand will be several hundred dollars below the Stand Alone Player price) they will be inclined to buy the BluRay Disc movies and watch them via PS3.

j razz

I hope you're right.

Well BD is already a success with XDCAM and it'll probably be popular as a data storage medium for PCs.
As a set top player, I don't know. Still NO word on how to author it and yet people are already authoring HD-DVDs that play fine. UMD is pretty well dead as a movie distro format, I would have boght into it IF I could author and burn myself. Silly Sony, only yourself to blame and I think it could be the same grass roots issues that'll affect BD.

Bob.

I dunno - Just read this:




Full article here.

PS3 is what I'm going to do, and I'm not really much of a gamer. Backward compatible with most PS2 titles, my son is getting to the "gaming" age. Good combo.

Now the authoring, I probably won't be able to afford the burners until Q1-Q2 2007.

All new formats come in at higher prices, then adjust accordingly due to market demand. I think Blu-Ray will do ok. That being said, I've seen a HD DVD player at Costco for a few weeks already, selling for $499.

The Toshiba HDVD player looks very good, but the machine itself and the user interface is positively dreadful.

John

Neither of them have the traditional "MENUS" that we are used to. So they both will suck until that comes. Whoever has that first and allows people to author their own, will win.

The menus are held up over security issues(!). Really.

XDCAM HD disks are not the same as BD disks for movies.

(There are a lot of good reasons to like XDCAM HD disks though.)

While the formatting for BD in XDCAM is different than for settop/consumer use, the media is effectively the same.
All this security nonsense was originally resolved, twice. Sucks that it's raised it's ugly head again as a preventive measure for the release and authoring of discs.

umm i dont know what the fuss is about..

BD will have an established user base once the pS3 is launched.. not for the player.. not yet anyway, but when ps3 is launched, it will put a million or so units in each household.. this penetration itself will establish the unit and the BD format for sony...
No ifs or buts about it.. if it wasnt for PS2 and XBox (and moreso the piracy surrounding these units), DVD media and players wouldnt be so cheap...

As for BD, there is no confirnatioan as to the authoring structure. From what i have read, they will behave the same way DVDs behave, however with network connection, there may well be a DRM system in place. This wouldnt surprise me and it woudlnt shock me to find this on BD playback
As for HD DVD, theres no reason why it couldnt follow the DVD menu lead... however to rush the product out before BD is established, it seems toshiba took afew shortcuts. I personally dont like the idea of scrolling through a GUI (as opposed to DVD Menu) to play a movie.
In addition to this, i think one of the more profound influences will be the audio formats used..
With BD, obviously capacity can be higher, in turn allowing for Dolby TRUEHD, which is bit for bit audio encoding based on video encode qualities. Basically halving the disc capacity to accomodate audio. Now consider THIS audio format on a HD DVD, and youre left with 12gb for video and 12 gb for audio... compared to SD DVD running lower res with a relatively close encode quality, then the difference in quality (sd vs HD) will be very minimal considering the differences in frame size
On BD though, your stil left with at least twice the capacity so for a higher end audio and video encode, BD will be the format of choice.

Above all else, noone nows whats happening with BD and its authoring. Hopefully DVD architect 4 wil become the Maestro of BD, and us being who we are as users, will end up having our feet further in the door with our existing knowldge of the system. In addition to that working with Vegas will also give us a head start with the formats/delivery options considering the the parent company in question...

Those that scoffed Sonys purchase of Sonic Foundry, and those that scoff at BD will soon understand the true value of what it means to have an integrated system, from acquisition, to editing to authoring to delivery...
believe me, it WILL make a difference...

Those that scoffed Sonys purchase of Sonic Foundry, and those that scoff at BD will soon understand the true value of what it means to have an integrated system, from acquisition, to editing to authoring to delivery...
believe me, it WILL make a difference...

=====================================================

Integrated system?

Well I for one would sure like to see that!

So far the integration of the exSoFo product line into the rest of the Sony product line has been haphazard at best, laughable at worst. Sony Australia does NOT even recommend any of the Madison products, that's IF you can find anyone that's even heard of those products. In fact they seem to recommend anything BUT the Madison product line, now that's integration.

Just this week I tried to get a Sony Broadcast service centre to find a curious problem with a VCR, told the manager I was using Sony's own software when the problem happens, "well there you go!" was the reply, great, really makes you feel 'integrated'. Sony's other local dealer sells and recommends, you guessed it, Avid.

Thing is a week is a long time in this game and several weeks ago I'm helping a client sort out some issues with their first shoot destined for HD-DVD delivery. Sure I'd have loved to convert them to BD but how, this production is now nearly finished, done on a shoe string budget but with some serious production values.

At NAB there was more than one person wandering the floor with HD-DVD disks they'd authored looking for a player to test it out in, uSoft seemed a bit cagey about letting them try them out but ....

Sure the Toshiba unit is a bit of a mongrel but it's easily upgradeable, it's just a PC in a box running Linux, no wonder it's cheap and it should be easy to fix, buy the bits at any computer store.

As for the security issues, well HDCP has already been cracked. Forget about it, game over. Silicon Vision have been shipping HDCP chips to anyone and already DCHP to unencrypted 1080 component boxes have reared their ugly heads. My advice to the studios, buy shares in ISPs, that's the only way you'll get a return on your back catalogue.

Bob.

"Just this week I tried to get a Sony Broadcast service centre to find a curious problem with a VCR, told the manager I was using Sony's own software when the problem happens, "well there you go!" was the reply, great, really makes you feel 'integrated'. Sony's other local dealer sells and recommends, you guessed it, Avid."

Money my friend.. money..
Its not aboutthe product, its about money..
Why would they WANT to sell a vegas Turnkey system for $12k, when they can sell an Avid turnkey system for 30 or 40... as far as theyre concerned, there are big bux involved with what we do and a sub 2k application just doesnt cut it (pardon the pun) when they have teh Avid name which almost sells itself and with virtually no effort..

The integrated "system" im refering to is more akin to the Adobe cross application relationship, however sony now have the means to build on that menality and really nail home with a full fledged solution. Wether or not they do this, is another question, but who knows..

all im saying is that as soon as teh PS3 hits the shelves the question about BD viability should be clearly answered. The fact that millions of units are alreadyu predestined for the average consumer (whether its for movie or gaming purposes to begin with, it doesnt matter, it will however be one of the early BD players and will most likely eventually be teh predominant BD playback device on the market...

EIther way, we wont know until it all comes to the fore, so theres really no point in speculating

Both formats are going to lose. Never mind the delayed shipments and initial high price. That's normal. What's not normal are all the restrictions on what a user can do; the lack of multiple compelling reasons to upgrade compared to what we had with CDs and DVDs; and, or course, the fact that no one is going to want to buy something that is going to play exactly half of what is out there.

If we had all the time in the world, one format would be upgraded to eventually beat the other in the market, much like what happened with VHS and Beta. However, things move pretty fast these days. What is going to happen is that certain manufacturers who are not aligned with any consortium will produce the players that the public wants, namely something that can play WMV and other simple hi-def format. Think VCD; or SVCD; or XVCD, except with menus and a few other nice things. I've already posted several times explaining why it will take five years, under the best of circumstances, for HD DVD or BlueRay to ever get to critical mass (because that's how long DVD, the hottest consumer intro of all time, took to get from first shipment -- which is where we are now with these products -- to critical mass where it was on par with VHS sales and rentals).

johnmeyer, 5 years is a short time in "tv displays and players design" compare to "computer market". But Blu-ray will reach the market mass quicker because of the following; 1. The intro of the PSP3, 2. new computers using Blu-ray,( where the dvd push was alot slower), 3. bluray is already in high-end commercial use-where HD-DVD has not been. Yes, it is true, MS has not bless bluray, but then MS thought they had won the HD codec war awhile back, but mepg2 has emerge from the ashes and is the codec of choice for HD media. DVD never made it in pro cameras before it was intro to the consumer market, but blu-ray has been in the field for awhile. High-end commercial market knows blu-ray already, this in itself will drive many sales from people working in fortune1000 companies, the "in" crowd follows next, then general consumer market( but the general consumer also gets the PSP3 push). HD-dvd has a harder road.

How can Sony benefit from PS3 penetration when it is continually pushed back and delayed?