OT: (But Urgent!) Need copyright advice

smhontz wrote on 5/12/2004, 1:42 PM
Some of you may remember my earlier posts about producing a video for my son's 5th grade Outdoor Education program. I went on the trip, shot all the video, made a great 90-minute DVD (all at my own time and expense), all in the intent of having the school using it as a fund-raiser. I found a place to duplicate it and ordered 75 copies at my own expense.

Now the school (principal, librarian, school board, district lawyer) is in an uproar because I used music in the video. ALL of the music I used was from the Movie Mania Buyout Royalty Free 40 CD library that I purchased from Elite Video. There is NO other music in it - it's all from that libary. I explained that to them. I showed them the license agreement. I told them that that's EXACTLY what these buyout libraries are for. The district lawyer is quoting fair use sections of the copyright law as it affects schools and I'm telling them that none of that matters, this is LEGALLY PURCHASED music that is LICENSED for such a purpose.

I've been trying to contact Elite Video to have them spell it out in more detail so maybe it will satisfy the school. Meanwhile, they have said that they won't sell the video, and if I do, they will turn me in... to who or what I don't know. They said "Why don't you remove the music"... kinda hard when a vast majority of it is video images set to the music, and besides, I've got 75 copies on my credit card already heading my way that have music... and, to top it off, school's over starting next Thursday so I was doing everything rushed to get copies in time so the kids wouldn't be disappointed. (By the way, we did show the video to all the kids and they LOVED it and they all wanted a copy...)

Any advice? I guess I'm learning that no kind deed goes unpunished...

Comments

jetdv wrote on 5/12/2004, 1:53 PM
One would think the lawyer would know that buyout music was specifically made for exactly that purpose. Maybe if you sent them directly to Elite Video's explanatory page http://69.20.79.11/page.asp?id=54
John_Cline wrote on 5/12/2004, 1:56 PM
You're right, they're wrong. I have run into similar situations and schools tend to overreact the worst. These are the same people that will suspend a child for pointing a finger at another child and saying, "BANG!"

John
riredale wrote on 5/12/2004, 2:07 PM
You want to hear something funny (or sad, depending on your perspective)?

There is a nice lady in our local school district who creates photo montages of all the kids in a graduating class (recent shots, baby pictures, school activities) and sets them to music. By "music" I mean a current popular hit--whatever's currently popular with the kids. She then sells these videos as keepsakes through the school.

From reading this board I would assume that she is one step away from San Quentin. On the other hand, I personally think the copyright laws are incredibly stupid, and uses such as these should be allowed. Sigh.

Anyway, sorry to hear of your situation, and I'm hoping there will be a happy resolution.
filmy wrote on 5/12/2004, 2:12 PM
Trying to talk "shop talk" to those not in the industry can be tough and I suspect that is the first part of the probelm. You mention the schools lawyer - I would suggest asking them how many film and tv productions they have worked on or done lawyer/legal work for. It sounds like that would be "none" by the way you are describing it. I would again bring him and photocopy for their records, the buy out legal agreeement and allow the school to keep it on file. You could also make up an agreeement that you are/were acting as an indy producer and you accept liablity on the first 75 copies sold. Also what I would do is nicely explain that your time is worth something and if they would like a re-edit for any reason they will need to pay you whatever the going rate in your area is.

They can not prevent you from selling it if they were aware that you were doing this in the first place. (Although they can prevent you from selling it on school grounds) Claiming ignorance after the fact probably will not hold up. My point is when you went on the trip with 5th graders, camera in hand, the district lawyer should have been right there asking questions. If you showed the video to the kids on school grounds than the lawyer should have been right there as well asking questions about the music.

It sounds like some internal BS to me really. If your district is like most aren't they having budget and school board votes this month?
Jay_Mitchell wrote on 5/12/2004, 2:15 PM
In your wriiten agreement with the school. Put in a "Indemnification Clause" and "Waiver of Subrigation" to release the school of any liabilities that occur from any claims made to the Content.

It's no big deal and will make them feel protected.

Jay Mitchell

SCVUG Host<a/>
smhontz wrote on 5/12/2004, 2:23 PM
Well, here's a little more history. The trip was March 12-14th. I signed up to go as a parent volunteer helper, but they had too many parents sign up, held a lottery to see who could go, and I lost. So, I said, "How about I go at my expense, drive myself, video this thing, and make a DVD afterwards?" Well, everybody, thought that was a great idea. (No lawyers involved yet.)

Then, a few weeks ago, the FBI raided the Deer Valley School District offices supposedly smashing a ring of illegal music downloaders and other copyright violators. Now, our school is in the Peoria School District but all of the school districts are now on high-alert as to not do anything remotely involved with copyrighted stuff.

So, then last week, I stroll in with my finished DVD and give some demo copies to the teachers. They love it, present it to the principal to say "Hey! This will be a GREAT fund-raiser!" and she watches it, hears the music, gets the district people involved, and next thing I know, I'm being treated as though I'm the local flasher on the school playground.

Now, I don't fault the teachers, the librarian, or the principal - they're all great people. Just everybody is running gun-shy (or copyright-shy) right now...
smhontz wrote on 5/12/2004, 2:28 PM
Well, there is no written agreement with the school. I did it as a volunteer, on my own free will, without pay. I get no money from the sale of the DVDs, either - each DVD would cost $20 and after the expense for duplication, they would probably net about $14 each. So I get nothing out of this - just a hope that someone would see my work and want to hire me. That, plus it makes me a hero in my son's eyes - which makes it all worthwhile.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/12/2004, 2:29 PM
Sounds the opposite of our district. They will happely turn their head the other direction if you're helping out the school. But filmy is right: if they had a concen they should of voiced it BEFORE you did the work.

You could always sell if to the kids/familys off school grounds. The school could try to turn you in. They would loose the lawsuit & chances are pay your expenses (if they didn't I don't think people would be happy with them, now would they?)

You in a big district? Maybe the AV is pitching a fit. I know we have something called BOCES here, and they supply most (all?) schools in the area use them to supply computers, internet, AV support, etc. Every time the topic of doing something internarly (instead of paying BOCES) BOCES says how it won't be cheaper by the school hiring someone & says they will charge the same ammount to the school even if they have 1 service or the current ammount (but will raise prices for added services).
kameronj wrote on 5/14/2004, 3:10 AM
Time to add my $0.02.

Sorry to hear about the Copyright problems.....but - you gotta give it to them straight. Once you bought the music tracks, in accordance with the agreement of purchasing said tracks, you have ever right (as in copyright) to copy (as in copyright) the music in your productions.

They really don't need to go any further.

It's good that the school wants to make sure that they don't get into any hot water....but - come on - that's just stupid.

I agree with what has been said before - sell the work to parents off school grounds. Let the district "turn you in". (To whom is a totally different story). Let them (who ever they are) take you to court.....and loose.

You can recoup your monies that way - and still be a hero to your son.

I just finished up a couple of video's for a couple of corporations. Yes the copyright of the music was a concern....but, like you, having purchased the royalty free music - and have the documentation to prove it....there is definately no prob.

Best o'luck.
J_Mac wrote on 5/14/2004, 5:36 AM
Not to put a stick in your eye, but CD #25 has "Happy Birthday" as the first mp3 sample. I recall the song being discussed as an extreme use of copyright protection on this forum with some contention, and the claim that it is actually protected. How can we examine their claim of 'Royalty Free', or must we accept it as is? I haven't found any documentation yet. Just worried. John
Spot|DSE wrote on 5/14/2004, 5:55 AM
Here's how it works....
The author of the royalty-free CD pays a performance and mechanical royalty to the publisher of the song in question, such as "Happy Birthday." On a project like that, any copyrighted license would be very cheap. It's Congressionally mandated, currently sitting at just under .72 per CD. So he pays .72 divided by the number of songs on the CD, to each owner of the various songs.
You buy the library, and out of that comes the mechanical fee. You owe nothing more. However *MOST* buyout libraries have 2 licenses; one for non-broadcast and one for broadcast, and the licenses to use their library are different in price to use them. Keep in mind you DON'T own the library, you own a silver disc with permission to use those songs, without paying additional costs to use those songs.
Either way, maybe the next thing to do if you want to "play nicely" with the school is to provide them a letter on the letterhead of the company that did the buyout library. If it's a reputable library, then they'll write you a letter, saying that you bought the right to use the music as you see fit.
I hadn't heard about any "raids" but have been aware of the FBI going into colleges and viewing the records of specific persons that were suspected of illegal downloads, and threatening the school if the school didn't provide records. It's gonna keep happening more and more. Sounds like your school is being overly sensitive to the issue, but when federal funds and legal fees are involved....can't really blame them. A school in Mississippi was just zapped for using copyrighted works in their school yearbook. Hasn't gone to trial yet, but the precedent for that specific bears right here in Utah. A school district was fined $170,000 4 years ago, for violations in 5 schools. They'd been warned by a parent several times. Bob Sebenburg of SuperTramp kept telling them it was illegal, they wouldn't listen, I guess he turned them in after the 3rd year. Most of the fine was suspended.
Good luck with your deal, that's gotta suck after doing all the work and getting that response....