OT: Cakewalk unethical anti-support

Rednroll wrote on 10/26/2004, 11:09 AM
For those of you who thought they ever got unsatisfactory support from Sony/Sonic Foundry let me share my recent experience with Cakewalk with you.

I purchased Ultrafunk's Sonitus: plugin pack v3.0. This plugin pack was purchased and now owned by Cakewalk. Recently I discovered that Cakewalk added DX automation capabilities to this plugin pack. I was therefore interested in visiting their website to find an update/upgrade option. There was none. In fact I was led to a page on their website that directly contradicted this information.

http://store.yahoo.com/cakewalkdirect/sonitus.html

Quotes from their website:
"Sonitus:fx is a series of professional audio processing tools for digital audio editing, sound design, games, multimedia, film or studio work. These plug-ins have been enhanced with DirectX automation, and can be use with SONAR, Home Studio, Project5 or any application supporting DirectX or VST."

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Registered users of SONAR 3 Producer Edition & Ultrafunk customers with Release 3x of the Sonitus:fx plug-ins do not need to upgrade. No changes were made beyond updating the UI to include the Cakewalk logo. All functionality remains the same."

All functionality remains the same? Then what does "These plug-ins have been enhanced with DirectX autiomation" mean?

I thought this might be an oversight on their part, so I went to their website looking for a way to contact support regarding this issue. I looked under alomost every link on their website entitled "support","download", "purchase" and "Products" headers on their main page for a way to contact them. I found nothing. My next step was that I posted a message in their user forums....there was no Sonitus forum, so I posted in the Sonar forum, thinking it would be the most likely to get a reply. I got many user replies, stating that yes this seems like a problem. No one from cakewalk. One user posted a techsupport contact link for me. I used that link to contact cakewalk's techsupport. 5 days later I got a tech support reply back stating, "This is a sales support issue, please contact our "Sales Support". The original message I sent was highly scrambled around and wasn't in my "Sent box", because the link I used was cakewalk's own message sending template. Therefore, instead of the techsupport just forwarding my message onto the proper support area, so that it could get properly addressed, now I had to go hunt for their "sales support" contact, which they didn't give me in the reply message, and also I had to rewrite my entire message. I became highly annoyed at this point. A user from their forum again, pointed me to the correct contact information, which was located under cakewalk's main page under the heading "About". I guess the "About" heading was the last place I would have thought about looking at for a support contact regarding a Sonitus plugin.

At this point I had 2 seperate threads going in the Sonar forum consisting of 50+ replies each, and had been viewed over 2000 times each. A hot topic like this, you can be gauranteed Sony would have addressed it in one manor or another from their support......but nothing from Cakewalk. The next step I contacted Cakewalk "Sales Support" as directed. I got a reply back in 4 days. Here's a quote from that reply:

"Thank you for contacting Cakewalk. We apologize for the delay in
response, but we have had a very high volume of email lately. You will
be able to upgrade to the newer version of the Sonitus:FX Suite for
$49.00."

They didn't mention how this transaction would be conducted and still on their webpage their was no "upgrade" offer for previous Ultrafunk users. So I posted this information to the user forums to update everyone that I had been having these discussion with. I later went back and my post with the above quote was not on the thread any longer. I thought maybe I made a mistake in posting , so I reposted the information. I went back the next day to the thread and again, the post was DELETED. After this, I was contacted via email by Cakewalk with the message below.

"Dear Brian,
The upgrade offer you were emailed is not available to the general
public and was offered as a courtesy to you directly. I apologize if
this wasn't made clear the first time around, but this matter could have
been quickly resolved by calling the toll-free Customer Service number
that was inlcuded in our email rather than posting to the user forums.
Please feel free to call 888-225-3925 to speak with a Customer Service
representative if you are interested in taking advantage of the offer or
for any assistance regarding Cakewalk products and services."


Wow!!!!! How's that for support? I just happen to be the squeaky wheel in this case. I was hoping they would have done the right thing and corrected their information on their website and offered other users like myself an "upgrade" option like the rest of their products offer. No such thing, instead they descide to oil the squeaky wheel and say screw the rest of our customer base who might have a simular situtuation. They even went as far as deleting 2 posts in their forums, which had the above $49.00 upgrade offer information, yet never posted one message in the thread to address the issue.

To make matters even worse, they don't even have any demo versions of the Sonitus pack, so that I could at least see if the automation in the plugins work in the Sony apps, before I even consider their personal upgrade offer.

To any of you considering purchasing Sonar or any other Cakewalk product, keep this story in mine. I've heard quite a few shared horror stories regarding Cakewalk and their support. Don't walk away from Cakewalk, but RUN!!! To me this is the most unethical offer I have ever seen and was mishandled throughout the Cakewalk company.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 10/26/2004, 11:47 AM
I was rather suspicious about that store.yahoo.com link. Normally Yahoo! stores are used by piddly little individual sellers and shady businesses that don't really want to be found. I figured you had stumbled upon some independant reseller rather than dealing with cakewalk directly. However, much to my surprise, that link is right from cakewalk.com's "Purchase" link! That borders on being completely unbelievable. If cakewalk.com can't handle processing orders on their own website it makes you wonder how serious they are about running a business.

--------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, i use PayPal for checkout in my store. But i ;)
Rednroll wrote on 10/26/2004, 11:55 AM
Update: Cakewalk just deleted the entire thread that this discussion was on. I guess the truth hurts when exposed.
PipelineAudio wrote on 10/26/2004, 1:51 PM
jeez louise. That Gate R3 was the first gate to seriously make me happy on a PC, and two long term buddies of yours had a hand in its development. Its a shame its now been twelvetoneized, but maybe that means Rune finally got paid well for his work.

I'm getting the runaround on my FXSpansion VST adapter now that Cakewalk has purchased it as well

Of all the things we bitch about on here, payment issues have never been among them I dont think
Rednroll wrote on 10/26/2004, 2:28 PM
Yeah, just imagine after Sony purchased Sonic Foundry if they made you pay full price for the next version how upset users would be? Even after Adobe purchased cooledit pro, they offered a free upgrade for Cool Edit users from v2.0 to v2.5, which they rebranded and added more features too. Now look at Cakewalk, they add additional features and rebrand it, then expect you to pay full price.....then they tell you, "no changes where made" after a sentence directly above it says, "we added DX automation". Then they don't even offer a demo of the product.

To make matters worse, I could see if they just made a mistake and overlooked something.....but they admittantly acknowledge the problem and try to hide it from the rest of their userbase.
PipelineAudio wrote on 10/26/2004, 2:53 PM
Here's another sad detail. The plugs just arent being advertised as stand alone at all like you pointed out. This guy REALLY listened and gave the end users exactly what they wanted in a gate, I dont know about his other plugins, but Im sure they are fine as well. Now, noone gets to know about these things, they are buried pages deep at the cakewalk site. I have been waiting forever to have DX automation in the Gate R3, just for those situations where like a soft snare roll is coming in or something. So its been out this whole time?

News to me...

They need to put some profileon the Sonitus stuff, badly...makes me wonder who else they might be sitting on
Rednroll wrote on 10/26/2004, 3:04 PM
"So its been out this whole time?"

Yes, exactly to my surprise too? I only found out about it, because I recently referred a user in the Acid forum as a great economical plugin pack in comparison to the expensive waves plugs. Go get your update of the entire suite for $49.00. You'll have to tell them that "Rednroll" sent you to get that price, otherwise you'll have to pay the $299 full price like everyone else. Contact Josh King at this email address:JoshKing@cakewalk.com. Make sure you mention my name, they're probably hating me right now....you know how I can stir up a commotion if need be. :-)~ They deleted my thread twice in their forums because I mentioned the $49.00 upgrade offer......they don't want that to be public information.......oops...sorry Cakewalk......I guess you forgot to have me sign a NDA before sending me that unethical personal offer.
MarkWWW wrote on 10/27/2004, 11:45 AM
I don't know if it will be any use to you, but Cakewalk did produce an update for the Sonitus plugins that were included in Sonar 3 Producer. It was included in a file called the "Sonar 3 Plugin Patch" and amongst other things it upgraded the Sonitus plugins to the DX automatable versions. The details of what was included in this patch can be found here: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2003194.asp

I don't know if it you would be able to use this patch to upgrade your Sonitus plugins since they are not part of a Sonar 3 installation, but it is possible that it might work for you. There's a link to download the patch from on the page I referred to above.

Mark
Rednroll wrote on 10/27/2004, 11:57 AM
Thanks Mark this is the most information I've gotten from anyone from cakewalk or any of their users at their forums. The only problem is that to be able to download the patch you need to be a registered Sonar user.
MarkWWW wrote on 10/27/2004, 1:49 PM
Ah, yes, I forgot you'd have to be a registered user before you would be able to get at the download page.

But I've got a copy of it so if you want to let me have your email address I'll email the file to you.

Mark
Rednroll wrote on 10/27/2004, 3:58 PM
Thank you...thank you...thank you Mark!!!! Send me a message to rednroll AT hotmail.com. Don't send the file there, it's a free hotmail account and it won't be able to handle it, I'll reply back to you with another email address that is able to handle larger file capability.

Thanks again,
Red
PipelineAudio wrote on 10/27/2004, 4:52 PM
Looks like when we get the upgrade to sonar 4, we will get the new Ultrafunk plugs, so I'm set. That mute tool looks AWESOME, but the rest of the GUI still looks quite unfun to me. Seriously are there other companies that Cakewalk is hiding this way that we should know about? I see some lexicon pantheon reverb thing???
Rednroll wrote on 10/29/2004, 1:41 PM
After some kicking and screaming Cakewalk has come forth and has put the issue to rest and are looking into further correcting it.

From Cakewalk:
"Hello Brian,

We are considering changes in how we present the Sonitus:fx upgrade offer.

I can see why you drew the flea market vendor analogy, our handling seemed fairly secretive depending on your point of view.

Here’s how the offer was presented: We directly emailed all registered Sonitus plug-in owners and offered an upgrade to the latest plug-in suite for $49. The email offer was sent twice. As you stated earlier, you bought a retail version of the Sonitus suite but never registered them. Since you weren’t in our list of registered customers, it wasn’t possible to notify you.

We are looking at raising the visibility of this offer. Doing so requires some time and planning, but we’ll keep everyone up to date.

For now the solution remains:
1) Register your plug-ins here http://www.cakewalk.com/Register/default.asp
2) Then call 888-Cakewalk to place an upgrade order for $49. (or 617-423-9004)

I hope that points everyone in the right direction.

Adam Burch
Director of Service & Support
Cakewalk "
Cold wrote on 10/29/2004, 6:15 PM
Hi Red,
Good to see you back, may life be treating you well.
Steve S.
Rednroll wrote on 10/30/2004, 9:41 AM
"Good to see you back"

Sorry Steve only a temporary hietus here. Had to temporarily break my own rules to spread a message. Life has been good without the Vegas Audio forum B.S.