I would recommend either using Cineform Neo Scene or batch converting all your AVCHD clips to .mxf. Either way your previews (at least at 29.97) will be smooth using your existing equipment.

If you choose to edit AVCHD, may I suggest a Cray X6? :-)

> I would recommend either using Cineform Neo Scene or batch converting all your
> AVCHD clips to .mxf. Either way your previews (at least at 29.97) will be
> smooth using your existing equipment.

But don't bet on it.

I have what I consider a pretty fast system, and 1080 Cineform playback with a text layer is rarely 29.97 for more than a few seconds, especially in 9d.

I'm running a i5-750 with 8 gigs of Ram. I don't transcode my AVCHD projects. I edit in sections of 5 min or less and then combine the sections for the final project. The frame rate does slow through transistions, titles and effects but it's workable for me. I use "selectively prerender" and that works very well to see transtions etc at full frame rate. Titles slow the most, especially titles done in ProType.

Buy the most CPU you can afford for Vegas. I went with the i5-750 as the best value.

I've tried transcoding into MXF and that works better than the native AVCHD but I think far more important is to keep your timeline down to 5 min or less.

Complicated, long timelines in AVCHD are a frame rate killer in my opinion and not necessary.

Hello all -

Thanks much for the replies, very much appreciated. I was seeking to edit native simply to avoid any transcoding, simply to save time and hassle.

I had seen folks talking about editing native, but if that's not the way it's done then at least now I know!

I've tried Cineform and while cuts-only runs along at very near 29.97, even simple text or fades drags things down a lot. I've had slightly better luck using downscaled .mxf files (and ProxyStream).

Thanks again to all for taking the time to reply...

Use Avid or FCP. I found Vegas skipping for a few frames at each cut - hardly best way to judge cuts...

"Use Avid or FCP."

That's not a particularly useful or practical suggestion. It was mostly just a cheap shot at Vegas.

Agreed. Someone who suggests using FCP in a Vegas forum is just taking a cheap shot. Besides, doesn't FCP need to pre-render most of it's transitions for smooth playback?

You can pre render any segment in Vegas pretty easily. Just select the trouble spot, press SHIFT-M, after Vegas has pre-rendered it, your transition will be prefectly smooth in all subsequent previews (at least until you modify that area again).

An editing software needs to deliver editing capabilities. Vegas allows edits but so what if the clip that follows the edit points shutters for a few frames. How can i judge the edit without having to prerender (to file or memory)... and each time?

Then there is the "quality control" on the clips it allows on the timeline. Yes, Vegas is famous for ability in ingest and TRY to play pretty much anything you throw at it but this feature is pretty much useless when it comes to actual edit... With Avid or FCP you have files that the software checks to see if they can be played at full frame rate and if not the software asks you to render (yes, you "loose" time initially, but in the long run you save as after the initial render everything works).

Then don't even start me on using Vegas to do any long forms... It's a constantly crashing joke.

I gave up on Vegas as viable editing solution long time ago, nowadys i use it as "FINISHING" software for short forms (from edit done on Avid or FCP). Or to create short form comps that involve some video and some images (much easier then FCP or Avid). As far as stand alone edit app - it's not a reliable app.

An editing software needs to deliver editing capabilities. Vegas allows edits but so what if the clip that follows the edit points shutters for a few frames. How can i judge the edit without having to prerender (to file or memory)... and each time?

exactly what are you trying to edit? if it's some more esoteric format see below.

Then there is the "quality control" on the clips it allows on the timeline. Yes, Vegas is famous for ability in ingest and TRY to play pretty much anything you throw at it but this feature is pretty much useless when it comes to actual edit... With Avid or FCP you have files that the software checks to see if they can be played at full frame rate and if not the software asks you to render (yes, you "loose" time initially, but in the long run you save as after the initial render everything works).

vegas might well ingest everything you throw at it (or at least try), but who in their right (professional) mind wants to work with such a tl? as many here do (successfully), we transcode to more workable formats, beit mxf, cineform, etc.,

whereas fcp / avid transcode to their own codec in the first place. mind you, i have absolutely no problem with that idea in the first place, and agree vegas would be all the better for working with it's own codec rather than trying to play / edit every format on the block.

so your complaint re 'quality control' is in your hands. if you choose to put 'dodgy' formats on the tl and vegas throws a wobbly, you have yourself to blame. i mean, if your car is supposed to run on premium, and you choose to use regular fuel, whose fault is it when the engine gives up?

Then don't even start me on using Vegas to do any long forms... It's a constantly crashing joke.

it might be a 'crashing joke' in your hands, but in mine i regularly do long form doco work without problem. true, there are bugs, but there's always bugs in every nle - those in vegas aren't show stoppers, and in all iterations since i started using vegas professionally (ver 4), i have found it to be equally, or more reliable than the competition that i've had to work on.

of course vegas isn't perfect - but no nle is. and yes, vfw is antiquated, and yes, graphic cpu is going to waste, and yes, it's a pita working with 32bit plug-ins when 64bit vegas is so much better. but if you don't find it so, go edit on whatever makes you happy - just don't whine to the converted!

btw, i think some of your work is absolutely fabulous!!!

The OP might be thinking that it's their system or they are doing something wrong while in reality it's the Vegas. So not everyone is converted as you claim. I'm converted only as far as the qualities i use this software for, as for regular edits i have way more pleasant experience (despite more clunky interface) with Avid and FCP (sometimes). So i'm not whining here but pointing out to the OP that there ARE better solutions for editing.

As far as your other claims, if software ingest something then i expect it to play. If it doesn't want to play or has hard time because of a codec issue or what not i expect some kind of warning. Besides we are not talking about any esoteric format here but simple HDV clips.

Experience comparison:
Same computer, same 1 hour long footage: Vegas - i try to import 50 clips - it crashes, i try to import 25 clips - it crashes, i try to import 10 clips - finally it works, i again import other 10 clips, it works, i try to import yet other 10 clips - it crashes. Never able to import all 50 clips i try to import only clips i think might be important, but in timeline when at preview set to Preview Auto it shutters at each cut for a few seconds.

Same computer, same clips: Avid MC: All 50 clips are imported and Avid automatically converts those clips into something that plays nicely with Avid. When done i edit away with perfect playback.

See the difference in the experience?

"See the difference in the experience? "---"All 50 clips are imported and Avid automatically converts those clips into something that plays nicely with Avid." trans-coded into an intermediary codec....... you can do that in vegas......... or by third party app. But that's your "call", your workflow.

What "intermediate" codec ? Cineform is not playing smoothly for me, so it's up to me to run test and see which other codec works best?????? I'm just saying that the only time all this Vegas silliness worked well for me was when i encoded all my HDV clips to SD, which is such a tremendous PITA... Once again, there are better and much more streamlined options out there.

patryk, i don't understand - you're saying avid ISN'T transcoding to it's own codec?

as i wrote, if you transcode material to mxf, (which is what i use, though most of the time i'm working with normal hdv), or cineform (which i haven't tried), you should have smooth as butter playback (of course depending exactly how heavily you then load up the tl with cc, mb, etc.,).

i'm sure as hell that if avid or fcp attempted to do what (foolishly) vegas tries to do by having every codec on the tl, they too would suffer.....

(did you ever try mxf?)

i do feel for you, believe me. there's nothing worse than trying to work with inadequate tools. in my case vegas works for me (i have tried edius - most awful interface i've ever worked with, and avid, which for my work isn't anywhere near as fast or flexible enough, and fcp, which i gave up with a long time ago as being more style than substance - though that might have changed....).

as an aside, i do think there's probably a lot of 'problems' inherent with some individuals systems. i'm anxiously awaiting for people to buy sony's integrated system - then we'll see if the 'bugs, problems, gremlins' still raise their ugly heads....

btw - if they do, then scs really does have a problem on their hands ;-)

I used to think that it's my mid-range system that's causing all the trouble but since i started using Avid i discovered that it's Vegas. If it works for you - fantastic, but i have moved on.

"but i have moved on"

Yet you're still here...

Again, thanks to everyone for the constructive feedback.

Being the OP here, I feel great about the options Vegas gives me in terms of transcoding, using pre-render, etc.

On a side note, Patryk, I've challenged myself to come up with a positive statement about Vegas that you would not disagree with. Here goes: Puppies edited in Vegas still look cute.