OT: Copyright question...

StormMarc wrote on 7/30/2005, 1:30 PM
I need to use a small section (about 10 seconds) of the Pope John Paul II's funeral and I have a video tape of one of the public networks airing it. Is there any rule that allows me to use a small section like this or is any use whatsoever copyright infringement?

Also what about if I film over someones head watching the funeral which is playing on the TV in the video shot. Any better?

Many thanks,

Marc

Comments

farss wrote on 7/30/2005, 3:16 PM
I think the content in this case isn't copyright as it was a public event however someone expended no doubt considerable sums in getting the footage. From memory down here one network can use 20 seconds of footage from another networks news footage with nothing more than a credit but that may well be only a gentlemans agreement that doesn't extend outside the 'club'.
Simplest way is to ask the source, to date I've never been knocked back. If they have the event still on tape most likely for a small fee they'll even make a you a dub of it.
And no, how you acquire your 'copy' is irrelevant to whether you've breached copyright or not.
Look at it the other way around, if you went to the event and shot footage of it then your work is most certainly copyright even though the event itself isn't. No doubt you spent money taking that footage and you're entitled to recompense from anyone who uses that footage otherwise why would you make the effort. If you happen to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and capture footage of some newsworthy event I'm certain you'd be auctioning that footage off to the highest bidder.
Bob.
filmy wrote on 7/30/2005, 4:50 PM
If this was a pool feed and got it off the pool you would be safe - however the Popes funeral was covered by so many networks with their own crews I would say that you would, in fact, be violating someones copyright.

Having said that there is entire "fair use" side - so, for example, what you are doing - is it for use in some sort of "review" or "news show"? There may also be a safety net for educational use - so if you are making this for a school (ie - classroom use) they might allow it...you would need to check and more than likely sign a waiver stating that it is only for use in said educational setting.

Also what about if I film over someones head watching the funeral which is playing on the TV in the video shot. Any better?

Same rules apply. In some reguards maybe even more so. because of how easy it is to do keys anymore you would be better off shooting someone watching TV, but have a blue screen there. When you find the footage that you *can* safely use just slap it in there.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/31/2005, 7:42 AM

Filmy is right. The funeral was not copyrighted, so you could have taped it yourself without any worries. But any tape you use from any other source IS copyrighted. Check with the source to CYB.


TheHappyFriar wrote on 7/31/2005, 8:49 AM
Odds are you could contact your local bishop & he could help you get footage.

I'm sure the catholic church has their own copies of it and my weekend job used pictures of the pope all the time w/o playing any royalities so it's out there, all you need to do is ask.
fldave wrote on 7/31/2005, 9:34 AM
Question for future recordings: Does CSPN allow you to use their footage of events in your work? I looked into the use of NASA TV channel, and from what I deduced, their footage can be used if you follow their guidelines. Government rules and all.

Dave

EDITED:
Part of my question is answered from CSPAN's web site:

COPYRIGHT POLICY

Copyright Policy for Educators Digital Copyright Policy


C-SPAN (Cable Satellite Public Affairs Network) hereby grants educators associated with degree-granting educational institutions this license containing the right to tape any C-SPAN-produced program without receiving prior permission from the network, so long as the copying is for in-classroom use and not for sale, distribution, or any political purpose. As public domain material, the video coverage of the floor proceedings of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate is not subject to this license, and as such, may also be similarly used for educational purposes.

The terms of this license constitute a liberal copyright policy that allows educators to record C-SPAN-produced programs (at school or at home) for later use. Such programs may be retained in perpetuity for future in-classroom use.

No license fee shall be due for using C-SPAN as an educational resource so long as such use is made in accordance with the terms of this license.
filmy wrote on 8/1/2005, 8:27 PM
RE: CSPAN -

They define things in one way but you have to walk on eggs - I have delt with them and here ins a little catch 22 thing -

Yes they state The terms of this license constitute a liberal copyright policy that allows educators to record C-SPAN-produced programs (at school or at home) for later use. Such programs may be retained in perpetuity for future in-classroom use.

They also state No license fee shall be due for using C-SPAN as an educational resource so long as such use is made in accordance with the terms of this license.

But here is what they don't state - if you happen to be making a film that is for educational use it would not fall usder those terms. It would fall under use in a film thusly you would have to pay a fee. Beyond that if you closely read the part that says ...so long as the copying is for in-classroom use and not for sale, distribution, or any political purpose you can see they are clear that "in-Classroom" means just that - "in-classroom". Take it out of the classroom and show it, say, at a public event and you have just violated the terms.

Beyond all of this - say you take a aprt of something and use it in a classroom newscats and that is aired on a PEG outlet - remember the "E" in PEG stands for "Education" and many areas use their "P" for the "E" as well. And in doing that you would have a *Major* violation of terms because, and this is th emost bizaree thing to me, CSPAN does *not* allow any "re-broadcast" in whole or in part of any of it's material on cable television. ?!?!?!?!?!?
So let me clear this up - if I wanted to pay for footage that C-SPAN shot and cut it into a theatrical documentary I would have no problem. If I recorded something, or even purchased footage direct from them, to use in a class room I would have no issues. Now if I wanted to use footage for a documentary that was both for educational use and for out of classroom use I would have to pay for the use of it - however if that project, with CSPAN footage, was aired on the local PEG outlet CSPAN could come after me for copyright violation and/or violation of terms of use.

I know this because I had contacted them about this exact issue. I was told I could use the footage as is *in classroom* with no problems. I was told I could license the same footage for use in a documentary. However I was denied use of the footage - paying for it or not - because my film would be available to any library, school or PEG outlet that wanted it. And the real issue was that it could be *aired* and they quoted the exact part of their terms - I don't have it in front of me at the moment for exact wording - that said their material could never, under any circumstances, be rebroadcast.

So outside of pool feeds and/or Senate/House hearings and sessions anything else is a huge no-no if there is any chance it might be aired somewhere. ..and this would include airing on some school system channel - going back to the "E" in PEG.