OT - dealing with people

vicmilt wrote on 1/16/2006, 5:47 AM
I got a very nice letter recently from a Vegas Forum gal, who was shy about her problem. When I got done replying, I thought it might be of use to a lot of folks out there who are trying to "get going".

So, with your permission, I'm presenting her plight, and my answer.
I hope it will help some of you, as well.
======================================
Mr. Milt....thank you for writing what you did today. I really needed to read it. I have my first documentary coming up. My initial meeting is Thursday. I spoke with the local film commissioner regarding a couple of issues. After speaking with him, I was ready to quit and go back to a life of cooking and cleaning for my family. My confindence level was squashed. This guy told me I was too enthusiastic....no one would take me seriously. When I told him I was doing the documentary for a volunteer project because I needed the experience and I really wanted to do it....he said that no one was going to take me seriously. He said that no one would want to work with me because I was undermining them. He said he was happy to see I wasn't a blond, and when I told him I had been a stay at home mom and hadn't really worked outiside of the home for a while....he referred to me as being "kept." I can't complain because I have already had to request one permit from him, and I may need more. I believe in myself, and I feel that I will be able to make an income from my passion. Anyway, thank you for your uplifting and encouraging posts....even though they weren't for me.....it helped me to get online and read them. Sorry to rant. Best regards

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Here's my reply to anyone with this sort of situation -

Dear Fellow Vegas Forum reader,

"It's hard to soar with the eagles... when you've got to work with the turkeys". (but that's life, sister)

OK - so what have you LEARNED from the brow-beating you took, from an idiot, who sneers at someone ready to help the community out??
(I have been accused of "overenthusiam" many times)

First (and I'm STILL learning this lesson) - keep your mouth shut.
No one will ever know what you don't know - UNTIL YOU TELL THEM.

So just try to "shut up" - surely one of your teen-aged daughters has tried to impress you with that knowledge... :>)

Now, the film commissioner really is not in a postition to NOT issue a film permit. Certainly not without good reason. So definitely YES, be polite and smile a lot, but forget about fear from that jerk.

Don't tell anybody (again) that you are working for the experience - no one wants to work with an amateur - and no one will know until you tell them that.

Rather - say you are highly interested in their message - that you want to help to get it out -
tell them that your video will be useful at fund raisers, as a give-away DVD (not for free) and in local TV advertising, as well as placement on local news.

You will meet resistance - so what? Keep calling with new ideas:
"Hey I see that your annual get together is next week - how about I come out and shoot something?"
"I've got a great idea for your organization... (fill in a simple, concrete idea) "Let's take the boys out to old Mt. Baldy", "Let's shoot that new firetruck and have the chief tell about it" "Let me shoot some of your rehearsals, before the big show"- when can we get together to plan a schedule?"

If you're up against a totally resistant person - fuggetaboutit - take your experience and your LESSONS, (thank-you very much idiot, I'll never do THAT again) and go somewhere else.

Learning how to deal with clients is as important part of the business as dealing with the crew, the talent and the rest of the world.

There is no failure... just things learned (I'll never do THAT again).

If you think this gets any easier after 40 years - whoops - you are wrong.
I still get rejection.
I still get resistance.
And I still make mistakes - technical, emotional and others. (Shut Up Victor!!!)

So start fresh, today, with a whole new direction.
Find another group that doesn't know who you are, and tell them you're interested in what they are doing, and that you'd like to document it. Pick something you're interested in. Then go for it.

Keep me in touch with your progress - I want to help you.

best,
v

Comments

Chanimal wrote on 1/16/2006, 9:47 AM
Vic,

Sounds like good advice to me. Hope you had a good Christmas.

Ted

***************
Ted Finch
Chanimal.com

Windows 11 Pro, i9 (10850k - 20 logical cores), Corsair water-cooled, MSI Gaming Plus motherboard, 64 GB Corsair RAM, 4 Samsung Pro SSD drives (1 GB, 2 GB, 2 GB and 4 GB), AMD video Radeo RX 580, 4 Dell HD monitors.Canon 80d DSL camera with Rhode mic, Zoom H4 mic. Vegas Pro 21 Edit (user since Vegas 2.0), Camtasia (latest), JumpBacks, etc.

Coursedesign wrote on 1/16/2006, 10:09 AM
Very very well put, Vic!

I help a lot of people who got screwed over because they were such nice people.

It's almost funny to hear afterwards, "You mean I don't HAVE to do this?", "You mean it is known that it is NOT POSSIBLE to negotiate with people like that?", etc.

In these cases, the nice people were dealing with sociopaths, people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (the whole world is against them, including their own family, and their children are not separate individuals, only extra limbs on the narcissist's body), and just a few more diagnoses from DSM IV (a "psychiatrist's encyclopedia").

Nice people waste far too much energy on trying to come to an agreement with pathologically sick individuals. In my cases it usually takes them a couple of months after they learn about the underlying problems before they are able to apply the lessons to themselves, because they are so thoroughly nice "and don't want to hurt anybody."
SHTUNOT wrote on 1/16/2006, 11:34 AM
I"people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder "...

In my line of work we call them "EDP's"...Emotionally Distressed People.

:) Great advice.

Ed.
Lili wrote on 1/16/2006, 12:28 PM
Thanks for sharing your uplifting advice to this lady - she's lucky to have you in her corner. What a total jerk she was dealing with!
apit34356 wrote on 1/16/2006, 12:41 PM
Vic, your my hero!
farss wrote on 1/16/2006, 1:11 PM
From my limited experience in this business I've met two basic types of people:
a) Very pushy and rather obnoxious. Doing very nicely financially thank you. In general their work is pretty ho hum.
b) Creative, talented people. Friendly, interested in learning, willing to teach what they know. Produce wonderful work. Mostly poor.
c) Should be someone with both of the above skills but somehow the two seem mutually exclusive.

Perhaps tha's where larger productions have an advantage, bring together the right mix of skills and personalities as a team to get the job done.

Bob.
vicmilt wrote on 1/16/2006, 4:41 PM
Now Farss -
First, let it be known, I love everything you write - informative and well stated.
But don't be a "creative bigot" - you just can't generalize about people.

Yes, I've met many dewey-eyed creatives who hide behind their talent and never seem to get the big breaks - but the truth is that I don't think I've ever met a really successful person who didn't have a lot of "push" going behind them. (Including you, I'll bet).

So the "C" choice does exist - and it's my goal to help as many people as possible started on that path, as well.

best,
v
Coursedesign wrote on 1/16/2006, 5:24 PM
I"people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder "...

OK, I don't know your line of work, but I hope you're not making light of this.

I agree there is a tendency today to overclassify things, but NPD refers to a specific, formal psychiatric diagnosis (described in DSM IV), and I have not been able to find a single recorded case of anybody ever being cured of it. It is nasty.

It is often, or possibly always, caused by events in childhood, around 3-5 years of age. It is often multigenerational.

These people are very sweet and usually of well above average intelligence.

The problem is that you and everyone else is an enemy trying to degrade them.

Don't marry one whatever you do, or you will be in a hell you couldn't even imagine.

I'm really hoping that the recognition of major psychiatric illnesses will be taught in every high school.

Today I can sniff NPD quickly (in seconds to hours), but in the past I couldn't sniff it even within 2 years.

You live and learn.
rmack350 wrote on 1/16/2006, 5:41 PM
Honestly, this guy could and should lose his job for what he said.

Rob Mack