OT: Dolly track, pan shots hardware?

ken c wrote on 4/30/2006, 5:27 AM
Hi - quick question, any ideas from you pros re how to best get a moving dolly type camera shot, on a budget?

I may get the book at http://www.dvcamerarigs.com (any good?)

I remember reading somewhere, that people use everything from skateboards to grocery carts, to hold a camera, to use as a moving dolly ...

This is mostly for indoors product shots, so I can make moving product shots ... dolly track at online stores costs >1K, I'm looking for something inexpensive and easy, won't be doing a lot of these..

googling, there's some interesting stuff re:

http://www.jorenclark.com/whitepapers/dolly.html

http://blogs.indiewire.com/cynematik/archive/the_dv_show_podcast.html

http://www.rondexter.com/professional/equipment/skate_wheel_dollies.htm
etc

thanks,

ken

Comments

Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 4/30/2006, 6:19 AM
I have used a wheelchair before and that works great. Last summer I purchased a dolly and track from Glideshot Industries and the shots I get from this is amazing. Glideshot is a bit expensive though after 20' track and dolly it ran me around $680.00. Great thing though is if you just get the dolly you can make your own track by using 1 1/2" pvc pipe. This pipe is cheap and you can build as long a track as you want.
randy-stewart wrote on 4/30/2006, 6:52 AM
Ken,
I just bought Dan Selakovich's book "Killer Camera Rigs That You Can Build" available on dvcamerarigs.com (Angel Dog Entertainment), this week. It's a great book. After seeing Dan's session at NAB, I had to have it. The hand-held "shock corridor stabilizer" (like the Steadi Cam) can be built for around $50. He has 12 different rigs you can build from the step-by-step instructions which include over 1300 pictures. Dollys, cranes, tripods, car mounts, sand bags, they're all there. Even I can do a build from these instructions. If that is the book you are referring to, you won't go wrong picking it up.
Randy
Grazie wrote on 4/30/2006, 7:03 AM
Ken - go fill yah boots!

http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/greydollies.htm

Grazie
ken c wrote on 4/30/2006, 8:16 AM
Nice! Thanks for the tips ... will do re getting Dan's book .. and that's a great site, Grazie - mucho thanks ...

this one, with pvc, looks cool:
http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/MembersRigs/dollies/tonysdolly/main/tonysdolly4.htm

good idea re glideshot, thx .. eg get a dolly, then build a track:
http://glideshot.com/catalog/default.php
Looks like their "GS5" or GS80 is perfect... then make pvc .. hmm wondering about how to make in a minor arc, that would be cool, eg curved pvc track.. though looks like curves require wheels that turn on the dolly.. ah well straight shots for now...

it's encouraging to see how innovative everyone is, in being filmmakers.... I'm thinking too, for closeup product shots, somehow using even something like model train tracks, and fix some kind of spreader on a platform for those... great idea re pvc too, thx..

also for kicks, I bought a clapper board on ebay, it's on my wall, very motivational..


call me "kentin" tarantino in the making lol..

now if I could just sign lucy liu, I'd be a happy film producer..

ken




vicmilt wrote on 4/30/2006, 1:50 PM
Hey Ken -
We built a rig similar to this:
http://glideshot.com/catalog/default.php
and then laid down 1 1/2" PVC pipe to guide the dolly.
We use it all the time.
RE: the guide tracks. We made cross braces out of 1"x2" lumber which keep the tracks equidistant from each other. The whole rig folds down into an easy to store/transport duffle bag.

It's as smooth as any "real" dolly I've ever used and cost under a hundred bucks. Took about 3 - 4 hours to build.

Can't find the original plans, but the above plans are close enough. This is not brain surgery. Go for it.

v
ken c wrote on 4/30/2006, 5:26 PM
Hi Vic, hey thanks a million ... great tips ... adds a nice professional flair to infomercial style product shot videos, to have a moving cam shot ... appreciate your help!

ken
vicmilt wrote on 4/30/2006, 6:10 PM
Ken -

Unless the product is huge...
think turntable.
And WIDE angle lens adapter.

v
apit34356 wrote on 4/30/2006, 7:32 PM
Ken, I think the professional look is very important in your designated market. So, I suggest that you email Vic and discuss with him about having him guide you professionally in planning your future infomercials. I think the time and money will be the best investment for you now. Vic really has a very good understanding of the dynamics of presentation on the small screen. Vic probably will not like me promoting his skills, but his professional advice would be a big positive step for you.
rmack350 wrote on 4/30/2006, 8:59 PM
Hi Ken,

The glideshot products look pretty serviceable.

To let you know where I'm coming from, I worked as a grip for about 15 years before opting for a steady paycheck in 2001. Many of those jobs I worked specifically as a dolly grip. I've worked with the smaller chapman and fisher units, with skateboard dollies (most grips refer to the glideshot stuff as skateboard dollies) and I've also worked with small cranes and jibs, both ride-on and remote. There are surely others with more experience but I've got a lot. So here's the treatise on what to look out for with the glidecam unit.

First off, they look just fine for what they are... a dolly an individual could afford to own.

What you want in any dolly is rigidity and smooth movement.

For rigidity, you want a dolly that won't flex if you ride it because that changes the leveling of your camera, and that's often important for product shots. Leveling a camera before the operator steps onto the dolly might just be a waste of time.

You also want push-pull handles that are rigid. If you pull on a handle and it flexes then this can affect your shot. Often you can fix this with diagonal bracing or by mounting the handle diagonally so you're pushing down it's length.

If the operator is standing on the dolly he or she may sway or shift their weight, causing a surge or braking of the dolly move. If possible, try to arrange for them to sit.

As for the wheels...these skateboard wheel arrangements have been pretty popular for a while now. The most common concern is that the wheels may deform if the dolly sits to long. You'll often see a dolly grip rock the thing back and forth periodically to try to prevent this.

These wheel sets aren't designed to go around curves. To do this, the four sets of wheels usually have to change their positions relative to each other. Imagine you fixed the wheels to a perfectly square frame. When you start to round the curve that square would like to stretch into a rhombus (and of course the wheels need to turn as well). With loose PVC you'll find that the track tends to shift when rounding a curve.

Anyway, the glideshot people say repeatedly that the wheels are designed for straight track. They get points for honesty.

Once you've got a simple dolly built or bought, the whole game is in track setup. If you're shooting big things or big action you can get away with a pretty marginal track run. For smaller products, the track needs to be layed as level as you can get it.

Let me illustrate a typical dolly move for a tabletop shot. The director or operator gives you instructions that amount to moving 6' over 6 seconds. That's a slow move. The camera and tripod are on the dolly, strapped down tight, and the operator is sitting on an apple box on the dolly.

The camera rolls and the operator gives you the cue to go. You start the push with your arms and shoulders (a press). This is the point where you change the state of the dolly and operator from stationary to moving and it takes a little more force than it would to just keep the dolly moving. Unfortunately for you, you're going so slow that you're always in that state of change (you're almost not moving) and any good fidget of the camera operator can stop you dead.

You're moving and counting, things are going well, until you come to a spot where the track is dipping. You should have leveled the entire thing but you were in a hurry. The dolly is now going just slightly down hill and you are trying to slow it down just a little to keep the speed constant. Of course the problem is that this is a dip in the track and now you're climbing out of it and you were just trying to slow it. The dolly stops dead. Crap.

This is one reason why there are many takes to a shot. And the reason why well prepared track can be vital to a precision shot.

Point? Maybe there really isn't one in that little annecdote but there are definitely some tricks to a good dolly move and hopefully I've got your imagination going a bit.

Rob Mack