I've been watching HDTV over the air for at least three years now.

All over-the-air analog television broadcasts will cease in February 2009. However, while all broadcasts will be digital, not all will necessarily be in HD. The network affiliates will be in HD, but some stations will still opt for SD.

OK, I have a question. I have a really early model HDTV. It's a 4:3 (with a 16:9 squeeze mode) CRT with component ins and no DVI or HDMI inputs. It works quite nicely with both my PS3 and Toshiba HD DVD player.

Will a TV like that work with an antenna like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765this?[/link]

The DTV shakeup started rolling out here in the UK - this WEEK!

Presently, we have a DiGiBox that allows for conversion from the digital signal to our analogue system. It works. But even here in central London it is sometimes flaky. Pixel and digital flow breakup is not uncommon.

The whole digital option has remarkable flexibility for end users. However I'm keeping my weather eye out for noting quality service delivery. Presently, I am not reassured. This doesn't mean I am NOT bowled over by the opportunities for us. Far from it.

Grazie

No, you need an HDTV tuner, not just an antenna. There will be a flood of DTV tuners hitting the market in the next year so that people can continue to use their SD analog TVs after analog broadcasting goes away. These tuners will be able to feed your TV with SD-DTV and downconvert HD to letterboxed SD. Without a TV capable of a minimum of 1280x720 (preferably 1920x1080), you won't be seeing anything in real HD.

By the way, what model TV do you have? I've never heard of a consumer 4x3 TV being able to display true HD.

It's a Toshiba. I got it back when Plasmas were the only other option and they cost about 20k and had a five year life. It thirty something inches and the picture looks pretty darned good with Blu-ray or HD TV discs. It's a true 1080i TV. The screen is 4:3 shaped, but you can change the aspect ratio with the remote so that the shape is correct. It has a tuner in it that I think can tune in HD channels.

Is there even such a thing as HD analog channels? I'm embarrassed by how little I know about broadcast stuff like this.

Grazie, what about the trial that began last year? Wasn't there a small village in Wales that was converted completely to digital?

That said, the roll out in the UK won't be complete until 2012! The last region to be digitised completely will be the Carlton/LWT region (ie, London). Personally, I say London should have been first.

I've not watched anything on analogue television for about two years, maybe three. My television has a digital receiver, and I have a dtv hdd recorder. Once in a while the atmospheric conditions play havoc with a few channels, but the signal is generally robust, and the picture quality acceptable. Mopeds, lawnmowers, and the fridge no longer cause interference like they did 5 years ago.

In the UK we have opted for the quantity of channels over quality, which is a shame. I would rather have high quality.

I can see our next purchase WILL be a HDTV with the necessary integrated digital decoders. If you want to see TV in the future you WILL need a digital converter. If you WANT to see HDTV you WILL need a HDTV. The death of SD Analogue is speeding up.

I have yet to see a "consumer" HDTV that is comparable with our existing 625 line analogue CRT for a price that fits for us. I can see the potential quality/value, but await the real sweet spot of quality<>price that will fit the bill. And yes I was at IBC this year and I saw much that WOULD turn my head, but at what price?

Oh yes, in the meantime, I CAN pick up, NOW, a small 8" LCD DIGITAL TV which has over 1000 channels available PLUS it does DAB Radio too! For less than $160=£80! - Perfect for the kitchen while I cook up a storming curry or stir fry or Couscous.

My point here is that prices ARE coming down and quality IS going up. It is just where the purchase tipping point will be for us. And it is this exact same tipping point that manufacturers are viewing too. Whether they are viewing this in SD or HD - they ARE viewing this. The power of the purchaser is NOT being ignored. It is one thing for a government to possit and rollout a new technology - it is another thing whether it is adapted to by the population. We have digiboxes as a midway midterm compromise. I'm just wondering how long these will be around? Maybe as long as the existing SD-analogue-625-liner non-LCD lump, in the corner of the lounge, will be functioning/working.

But what do I know?

Grazie

Worley, just read your post. G

"Wasn't there a small village in Wales that was converted completely to digital?" - YES

"That said, the roll out in the UK won't be complete until 2012!2 - YES



"The last region to be digitised completely will be the Carlton/LWT region (ie, London)." - YES

"Personally, I say London should have been first." - No opinion!!! LOL . . far too political for this forum to stomach . .

"I've not watched anything on analogue television for about two years, maybe three." Ditto here.


"My television has a digital receiver, and I have a dtv hdd recorder." - We have a separate digibox. So you record HD offerings? Then how do you view the HD?

"Once in a while the atmospheric conditions play havoc with a few channels, but the signal is generally robust, and the picture quality acceptable." - We have had outta syinch vid and audio from BB1/2 and ITV and a few others.


"Mopeds, lawnmowers, and the fridge no longer cause interference like they did 5 years ago." Sure . . we have had a a neighbour's - some 50 metres away, badly earth satbox throwing 4 second periodic radiation spurts that interfered.

"In the UK we have opted for the quantity of channels over quality, which is a shame. I would rather have high quality." - Eh? I'm not sure I can give an opinion on this. I will say that more channels, and PC/MAC integration and local content and local content creators, will be an amazing opportunity for London film makers in many many sectors.

At the end of the day, this is a passing issue. It is one of delivery and NOT of content. And it is the CONTENT as a result OF more delivery options that get me going.

As Laurence's title says: "RE: OT: DTV - I had no idea!" - well . .. it is only delivery - but that option you can pick up as and when you will - it is the stretch to and customer purchase-reach that has been even more shortened and made more personal.

Grazie

Now if you watched PBS and not Nick @ Night you would know that! Just a joke don't expect everyone to be an old fart like me.

<The DTV shakeup started rolling out here in the UK - this WEEK!>
In UK move to digital and quick rollover is purely a commercial decision. The resulting freed UHF frequencies (band IV & V) are worth a fortune.

For analogue, the broadcasters prided themselves in attaining 98.99% coverage. With digital, there is no target. All the little coverage filling transponders are not going digital.
I live just 6 miles from the main London transmitter. The analogue version serves about 10 million viewers by using small repeaters. Once we go digital, I will have to rely on cable and satelite for my pictures.

Mahesh - "The resulting freed UHF frequencies (band IV & V) are worth a fortune." - My ignorance here, but what would I do with UHF freq, once I bought one? What are they used for? Who would be clamouring for them?

Cheers,

Grazie

< Grazie: Who would be clamouring for them?>
When frequevcies for 3G were auctioned by the goverment, there was a clamour to obtain this sparse commodity. I am not sure of the exact figure but it was 2.xx billion.
Freeing the UHF band would allow for more frequecies for private enterprises, including extending mobile services. Here in UK, this spectrum is vigourously regulated. Deregulating will produce quite a winfall for the goverment.

Here in Aussieland we have had almost full cover of digital parallel with analogue for three or four years now(even in rural areas).
Laurence, you might not have gotten the full picture either since digital delivers up to five separate pictures (or three and one HD) plus at least two audio(radio) streams in the space of an analogue signal. The "low" definition is DVD quality with the HD much better.
The best thing about digital though is that in areas where although strong the signals have much ghosting due to terrain etc digital gives near perfect reception!!! Many of my friends who have put up with "guesswork" viewing for years are now enjoying perfection. That said I too am a bit worried about the occasional pixelation and dropouts which occur even in good signal areas.
Bad reception (pixels and stuttering sound) are practically unwatchable.

My advice from a number of installs is a broad band outside antenna (phased arrays seem best) ans a masthead amp.
Brian (100 miles south of Sydney)

< bw: Here in Aussieland we have had almost full cover of digital parallel with analogue for three or four years now(even in rural areas).>
Digital transmission in London area started from Crystal Palace transmitter in 1997, I think. Test transmissions of DAB ( Digital Audio Broadcasting ) started in London, in 1998 ( The year I left that industry )

@Gracie, I'm not watching HD but SD. Like you, I won't be buying an HD television until the BBC is broadcasting it channels in HD.

Currently, in the UK, we squeeze about 30 channels in the space of 5. What this means is that the bit rate and resolution of some channels is extremely low, giving a very poor quality picture. Similarly, with DAB, the bit rate is very low so that more channels can be broadcast. However, the digtal radio available on the DTV boxes is BETTER quality than DAB.

The 3G spectrum raised 21 BILLION for the government! I don't think the UHF frequencies will get anything near that.

Is there even such a thing as HD analog channels? I'm embarrassed by how little I know about broadcast stuff like this.

You'd think so, but no.

it's really hard (and expensive) to find a stand alone HDTV tuner box for the USA. I've looked.

ANY TV antenna will work. All it does is get the signel. My antenna isn't "HDTV" ready but I get every HD station in the area. Which brings up another point....

HDTV isn't required to cover the areas analog covered until '09. The FCC requires that stations must cover their city/town of license. So some HD stations may not be currently available when SD are.

I've had much better luck getting HD stations then analog over the air. Very nice. I used to have to rotate my TV antenna to get most local stations, not with it stationary I've gotten all the stations except one. Very happy.

I have broadband TV (through the phone line)... all pure digital. Of course some of the tv stations are still pumping out analog which must be converted.... but it's a pretty neat system. Instead of one cable bo x for each tv, you have one cable box for 3 tv's. It sits where your main viewing tv is and the other remotes (supplied) communicate in other rooms of the house with different tv''s through UHF, so the remotes work anywhere in the house.

The only downer is that they seem to be slow in adding HD channels.. we only have about 10 of them now.

it's really hard (and expensive) to find a stand alone HDTV tuner box for the USA. I've looked.

You could go to your nearest Best Buy or Circuit City store. They should all carry this, if not they can get it for you.

Or better yet, buy the same product on Amazon.com for less.

I bought a Samsung tuner there many years ago, and after testing many expensive indoor antennas, even outdoor antennas that could be hidden indoors, I found this one to be the best. Amazing pull, very small, and sells for just over $20.00.

Living about 45 miles away from the local TV transmitters, I get 31 stations, including 7 in HD.

And for the $100/month that I don't pay the cable company, I put that towards putting Dom Perignon instead of milk on my breakfast cereal every day. :O)

Did I mention that my picture is better than cable or satellite? OTA (Over The Air) avoids one recompression, sometimes even TWO recompressions and scaling.

Note that the HDTV/DTV tuners have analog outputs in addition to the DVI or HDMI outputs that still give the best picture.

I have a HUGHES made for DirectTV. I don't have DitrectTV but it decodes the airways fine as they all do. Also I just got a HD Tuner (USB) for my computer based MM system for $80. Not really expensive anymore and all new TVs have HD tuners.

I also had no idea about the HDTV OTA until I finally replaced my old analog TV with a 36" LCD HDTV. At the store, prominent signs warned me that my HDTV would be useless unless I subscribed to a HD cable service, but I ignored them, my intention was to be able to watch my own videos from my HDV camcorder. I set up the TV and plugged in the antenna and was stunned by the number of digital channels that I'd never realized existed, many still SD but also including 720p and 1080i. This is in the SF Bay Area.

RIght now I don't have any way to record broadcast digital signals, but I understand that there are inexpensive USB devices that can record digital broadcast signals including HDTV to a laptop computer. Pinnacle PCTV or Hauppauge WinTV are two examples.

http://www.amazon.com/Pctv-Stick-USB2-Hdtv-Tuner/dp/B000IM5GAO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9118697-3382255?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1191521522&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-WinTV-HVR-950-Tuner-Personal-Recorder/dp/B000J1CCGA/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-9118697-3382255?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1191521522&sr=8-2

Re HDTV tuner boxes. I don't see the point in buying one of these to use with an analog SD TV. Last I saw the tuner boxes were priced high enough that for a hundred or couple hundred dollars more you could get a flat screen TV with the HD tuner built in (you have to find a real deal to do this, but it can be done).