I have yet to come across an 80-minute MiniDV tape in a store, anywhere. I've seen them online but don't need them badly enough to justify the shipping charges.

Still, I would assume that the 60- and 80-minute tapes are identical (when coming from the same manufacturer). there certainly appears to be enough extra space in the tape cartridge for the added length, so you shouldn't run into anything like on audio cassettes--where the longest tapes (T-120, for example) use a thinner tape in order to fit the extra length in the casing.

I've had good results in LP mode, as long as you clear the tape in LP mode first; quality appears the same as SP, the tape just runs slower. That said, if you record LP on top of SP time code, strange things often occur at break points between scenes (i.e. where you hit pause).

The diffrence is probably the same as it is for most tape formats, the more tape they cram into the litte cases, the thinner the tape gets. The thinner the tape is the more chance you have of the tape breaking which is not a good thing. I would stick with the 60's.

thanks for the shockingly fast replies. the only reason i am interested in the 80 minute or even longer is because i have already run into the situation of having a finished product that runs an hour and ten minutes. I hate the idea of splitting up something like that.

anyone else

There is NO quality difference.

We use them all the time. They're great for events that exceed an hour. We always use them in SP mode and tape very few events that require more than a continuous hour & 20 minutes. If the event DOES require more time, we just stagger switching tapes.

o.k. now with this information under my belt, who / what media do you use in the 80 minute style.

right now i am using sony 60 minute tapes, does sony make a good 80 minute tape or do you recommend something else.

once again, thanks for the shockingly fast replies

dgg

Just my experience, but I have had a LOT of problems with the Sony tapes, we found they have a lot more dropouts than other brands. We have switced over to all Panasonic tapes right now and that has seemed to eliminate our dropout problems.

I have also heard that you should try to use the brand of tapes from the manufacturer of your camera or deck. So if you have a Canon camera you should use Canon tapes. I have no idea if this is a valid theory or not. We use the Panasonic tapes in Sony, Panasonic, and Canon decks and cameras and don't notice any problems.

Like with CD or DVD media you can get a bad batch of DV tape. I've used the Sony brand (some web sites claim its the number one selling brand of DV tape) and have had no problem. Also like with CD/DVD media each brand has a slightly different processing so while they all are DV tapes they are not all exactly the same coating, etc.. Find that a brand that works and stick with it.

I've been using Panasonic MQ 63 and 83.

If you're using Sony, I'd stick with Sony.

thanks everyone, i'll be looking for some sony 80 ish tapes over the weekend. btw, the camera i'm using is not a high end cam, its a sony trv 18.

thanks for the input.

i guess the mods can close this thread now.

If you need to record over 60 mins in DV you could use the large format DV tapes, you'll get about 480 mins on them. Most probably they will not fit your camera but you can hook the camera up to a VCR like a DSR 11 though 1394.

That is an ideal solution to PTT a longformat production.

newbie123:

>i guess the mods can close this thread now.<

Ha!! I guess you're not used to this board. There are a lot of people here (myself excluded) who know a LOT. Who knows when this thread might end?

I buy most of my tapes online via http://www.TapeResources.com their price for 80min is $8.99. Otherwise I have found 80 minute tapes from Circuit City / Good Guys usually about $12 each.

I have used the 83 minutes tapes and they are fine. They have been around for a while, I first used them over 2 years ago for a location (concert) shoot. No problems at all. Most recent I use one to dump out from VV to my JVC SR-VS30 and had no issues. For the record I only use panasonic mini-DV tape stock. The 83 I used was a AY-DVM83PQ. The "consumer" ones you find in Wal-Mart (They do have them, I have bought them in a rush when i didn't have time to order via my normal place) are 80 minutes - ME-DVM80.

Sp vs LP - I have only used LP a few times and there doesn't seem to be a short term loss. The concern stated by some is that over time tapes recorde on a slower speed will degrade faster than those on the faster speed. Image wise I am not sure there really is a differance beacuse digital is digital. 1 and 2 is still 1 and 2 no matter what it is on - the issue come into play with the media those 1 & 2's are stored on. So having said this - if you dump off a show onto a mini-dv tape recorde at the slowest speed and never look at it, store in your underground tempature controled vault, the quality should still be "perfect" when you pull it out 30 years from now. If you play this tape in a kiosk daily I wouldn't keep my fingers crossed it will hold up after 30 years of use. By nature I tend to still do everything at the fastest speed, but I am a child of analog and still know that beta was superior to VHS.

If you want to be anal you can only record on Sp and you can only use a dedicated Mini-DV record deck (as opposed to a playback/record one) and only use master quality tape stock. Store everything at one of those underground storage vaults they store all the military footage in and never ever feed the tape after midnight...oh wait...I mean never ever use that tape unless you need to make a sub master for duplication reasons.

I am not that anal





yet.

I say again, Sony DVCAM 40s give you 60 minutes in a consumer camcorder and can be used again and again. I have some DVCAM 120s bought in early 2000 that have many passes on them with nary a drop out. Check the specs on Sony DVCAM tape so you can see what the extra money gets you. In my experience Sony low end "Excellence" (snort) grade is okay for a few passes but does not stand up to extended use, develops dropouts when shooting in temperature extremes such as -25 C or +35 C.

Peter

Just a small head up.
Don't assume that because you're using DV type of tape that you'll get good archival qualities. This is the assumption I had made until I did some research.

Tapes for recording DV are invariably Metal Evaporated. Now we all know what happens to metals over time. Analogue tapes such as Hi8, SP and even lowly VHS used iron oxide, last time I did chemsirty 101 rust deosn't rust!

Also the effects of degradation over time are more likely correctable on analogue recordings than digital.

I've just pulled what I could off some UMatic tapes over 20 years old that hadn't been very well stored at all. Fed VCR through dropout compenstator which helped a bit, in many place the chroma had gone but at least you could pull a watchable B&W video out of it. Once DV goes good luck.

Please don't take my word for this, if you're planning on saving somthing for future generations or even for your own use a few years down the track do as I did, do some research. Recommendations I've seen would indicate 5 years for any ME tapes, 10 years under ideal storage and they were talking DigiBetacam which has a high level of redundancy. MiniDV, well who knows.

Its kind of like the claim some manufacturers make for the life of DVD media, trust us, they're good for 50 years, some say 100 years.

I'm playing it safe in that all the stuff I'd hate to lose I make a DV tape copy, a DVD copy and backup on a removeable drive. I figure one of the three versions should last long then I do. After that, somebody else's problem. ;-)

I had some fun Googling around this evening regarding this issue of tape life. Came across this site

http://www.videointerchange.com/tape.htm

that has a lot of trivia about various tape formats and their history. They say that tape lasts at least 10 years, but 30 years is pushing it. I figure they ought to know--their job is retrieving video from old formats.

They also say that the more dense the storage, the more quickly it begins to deteriorate. This would imply that miniDV LP tapes will be the first to go.

I'm with Billyboy on this one. Anything truly important should be kept in several formats. If you store it digitally on a HD, it should be simple enough to simply transfer as storage technology evolves.

I use Digi8 instead of MiniDV, and can't ever remember experiencing what I might confirm as a dropout - my only method of evaluation being to view the stored video or listen to the sound.

I'm guessing that, being digital, either the signal is there, or it isn't - no quality compromise as in analog work.

Caruso

I've been using Panasonic 80/120 min tapes in SP and LP mode for jobs here for a while with no problems at all.

I've got about 16 hours of tape data I'm editing at the moment and have no problems with it (I've been working in broadcast TV ro 25 years btw, so I tend to be picky. I use Betacams SP, DigiBeta and DVCPro50 at work).

Try it. If it works for you ....

I don't use MiniDV to archive though.

Cheers

BillyBoy,
those claims for DVD / CD media are true IF you use the quality of media they are based on. The rub is trying to sort the good from the junk.

The original DVD / CD reflective layer was gold, even if oxygen gets to it you're pretty safe. Also the lacquer used as the backing is a patented formulation. At the prices CD and DVD have fallen to obviously they're not using the good stuff just to avoid paying the licencing fees.

The archival grade CDs I use are rated to last 100 years. They cost around $3.00 each, the same supplier also sells 'dub' stock at less than 10% of that. At least I get what I pay for and he has the independant tests to back up his claims.

You can pick up 80 minute Panasonic tapes at Target. I have also picked them up at Walmart. If you order Panasonic tapes I would recommend the PQ instead of the MQ. The MQ uses a dry lubricant and the PQ uses a wet lubricant as do the store shelf Panasonic tapes. I have seen several posts and have experienced head clogging myself by switching back and forth between MQ and other Panasonic tapes. You would be better off if you can have more options. For example, I have found that PQ and store brand tapes seem compatible with Fuji brand tapes as well. Not so with the MQ variety although I must admit that the MQ displays very nice reds.

That any of this is even an issue is a sad note for the entire industry. Fighting over chemical standardization in DV tape manufacturing has resulted in many expensive DV cameras being severely damaged. There is no excuse for that.

John

I understand what you're saying, but I'm a little suspicious of the testing method. I get this image flash in my head of several guys in lab coats one dipping several CD's or DVD's in some bubbly solution with some Einstein type madly scribbling some complex formula on some blackboard.

So really what I'm asking is how to they know its going to last 50 or 100 years? Obviously the technology hasn't been around that long or someone could come up with a CD or DVD they burned in 1902 and say hey look it still works. It isn't like when Goodyear claims our tires last for 50,000 miles, that can be easily demonstrated and confirmed.

Just being silly.... its Sunday. <wink>