OT: DVD player output settings: 16:9 vs. 4:3

scissorfighter wrote on 10/28/2005, 11:20 AM

Good afternoon, crew. I have a potentially silly question regarding how my DVD player outputs video to a 16:9 monitor. I have a Sony DVP-S530D connected to both a Sony PVM-14L2 CRT and an HP L2335 23" LCD, both of which (supposedly) can support 16:9 display.

In the DVD player setup options, I have configured the TV Type as 16:9/4:3 wide mode, and configured both displays for widescreen. Not "stretched" mind you, just standard 16:9 display (well, technically stretched to 16:10 on the L2335.) If I were to play a DVD with 4:3 source video, I would expect the DVD player to output the video with black bars on the left and right to take up the extra space of the 16:9 display, maintaining the correct aspect ratio of the image in the center. But instead, the video is stretched to fit a 16:9 frame, filling the entire screen. Is this normal operation? Since the PVM-14L2 CRT is also displaying the video stretched to fill the width of the screen and there are no settings on the CRT to stretch video, my guess is that it's the DVD player's fault. Changing the TV type setting between 16:9 and 4:3 appears to have no effect on the output when playing a 4:3 source video. However, it does have an effect when playing a 16:9 source video... letterboxing correctly when configured for and displayed on a 4:3 monitor, and filling the screen when displayed on a 16:9 monitor.

So I guess the question is, is it the responsibility of the DVD player or monitor to maintain the correct aspect ratio of a 4:3 source image? If it's the monitor's responsibility, then why does the DVD player have the option to be configured for a 16:9 display? If it's the monitor's responsibility, then are both my expensive L2335 and PVM-14L2 displays broken or misconfigured? Or, is it all in my head and this is the way things are supposed to work?

There is one other piece of information that leads me to think my DVD player is at fault. I also have an HD satellite reciever, which also can be configured to output to a 16:9 display. When the source program is 4:3, the satellite reciever outputs extra side-letterbox bars (which is a configurable option), so that the 16:9 display receives a 16:9 format signal with the video in the center and bars on the sides. The result is that the L2335 shows the image correctly in the center of the screen, with bars on either side. This is what I would expect from my DVD player under the same circumstances.

I hope I'm making sense.

Thanks,
Ryan

Comments

filmy wrote on 10/28/2005, 3:15 PM

Overall the players are "stupid" as are the DVD's. THe DVD's are what they say they are - either "full frame" or "widescreen". They depend on the DVD player to tell them what to play - so if you have your DVD player set up for 16:9 output that is what the DVD will play out at, no matter what the aspect ratio of the DVD is. Now the TV/ Monitor is another issue - that too depends on user input. 4:3 DVD output as 4:3 to a 4:3 monitor - no issues. 4:3 output with a 16:9 setting onto a 4:3 display may not have any issues either. However 4:3 output with a 16:9 setting onto a 16:9 display will end up the same as if you watched any 4:3 source on a 16:9 monitor - squished image.

I liked it better when DVD's had both aspect ratios on the disk because you could just select the aspect on the DVD side and not worry about player settings. Now, more and more, DVD's are either "Full Frame" or Widescreen" so you get one or the other. Another interesting thing is that more and more disks are coming out that are actually fuller widescreen (2:35:1) - meaning they are wider than most 16:9 TV/Monitors (aspect of 1.85:1, nore or less) so they play out with black bars on top and bottom no matter what the aspect of the TV/Monitor is.

Now having said all of this - one of the things that has been somewhat confusing is the fact some "widescreen" DVD's are set up to output the black bars no matter what whereas the ones marked as "Enhanced for 16:9 TV's" and/or "Anamorphic 16:9" don't. This is why, on playback, when I got a DVD that had black bars on top and bottom I started thinking that somehting was wrong with the DVD player. That is when I discovered that all my DVD's that have an aspect of 2:35:1, even if they are "enhanced for 16:9 TV's", have the black bars.

So - examples - all based on the DVD player being set up for 16:9 output.

10 Things I Hate About You says it is Widescreen and says the aspect is 1.85:1. However it plays out with the black bars, even on a widescreen TV. It does not say "Enhanced for Widescreen TV's" or "Anamorphic".

Apocalypse Now does not list the aspect ratio but has"Widescreen edition" on the box along with the "Black bars are normal" disclaimer. However it also does say that it is "Enhanced for 16:9 televisions" and it plays back in all it's widescreen glory on a 16:9 monitor.

Sin City says "Widescreen (1.85:1) - Enhanced for 16:9 Televisions". It plays out fine with no black bars.

Elektra, the "Widescreen" version, has "Anamorpic Widescreen 2.35:1" on it and plays out with the black bars on the top and bottom.

Black Hawk Down is worded a bit different - it says "Widescreen" but you have to look way down in the corner for a little box that says "This dual layered disk contains a widescreen version and preserves the orginal aspect ratio, approximately 2.40:1". Notice how the aspect is even more than the others. This disk also does not say it is "Enhanced" or that it ias "anamorphic". However it plays out the same as any other DVD I have that is "2.35:1" aspect and "enhanced" or "anamorphic".

What would be nice if some sort of true standard was adopted as far as wording and output goes do it could be apllied to all. I mean we have DTS and Dolby 5.1 which are sort of standards as far as audio goes. One can choose there as outputs on a DVD and the player as well. However on players we only get 4:3, 4:3 (P & S) or 16:9. And DVDs with either get "Full Frame" or "Widescreen" (ok we may get a disk with both in which case we get "Full Frame" or "16"9") but we don't have another option for these wider than 16:9 (1.85:1) versions. And I do not see too many, ok none that I have seen, TV/Monitors that are "4:3, 1.85:1, 2.35:1, Imax switchable"...ok, not the Imax one but you get my point.

So I guess the answer to your question of is it the responsibility of the DVD player or monitor to maintain the correct aspect ratio of a 4:3 source image? is right now it is sort of everyones and everythings. Even in most editing programs you have to manually set the aspect ratio of both the output monitor and the project. My direcTV recever has a set up optin for tv/monitor size and i have it set to 16:9 however it never seems to matter - to does not auto uprez/crop anything that is 4:3 to 16:9, nor does it add black bars on the side of the TV. I have to manually set the TV to 4:3 if I want to watch it that way.

farss wrote on 10/28/2005, 3:35 PM

Yes indeedy, tis all very confusing, particularly when it comes to commercial DVDs!
All I can add is DVDs authored through Vegas and DVDA work correctly on all our DVD players and monitors / TVs.
With the DVD player told the display device is 16:9 then the 16:9 DVDs are sent to the display as 16:9 anamorphic, put a 4:3 DVD in and the 4:3 is letterboxed into the anamorphic 16:9 frame, i.e. it correctly displays with bars on the sides.
Many STB DVD burners do not set the 16:9 flag in the DVD so there's a problem! They may if they get the flag in the incoming video but that's all too easily lost.
I've yet to have VidCap correctly set the 16:9 flag in the captured media coming off DV, SDI captures seem to get it right though.
Bob.

scissorfighter wrote on 10/31/2005, 4:29 AM

Thanks for the comments guys. In this case however, I'm not concerned about the aspect ratio encoded on the DVD itself, per say. I know that it's 4:3. But Bob's comment about displays is where I'm focusing:

With the DVD player told the display device is 16:9 then the 16:9 DVDs are sent to the display as 16:9 anamorphic, put a 4:3 DVD in and the 4:3 is letterboxed into the anamorphic 16:9 frame, i.e. it correctly displays with bars on the sides.

This is where my problem lies. Unlike Bob's results, on my DVD player configured for a 16:9 display device, if you put a 4:3 DVD in (which was created with Vegas and DVDA,) it is not correctly displayed with bars on the sides. Instead, it's stretched sideways to fill the 16:9 frame.

filmy wrote on 11/11/2005, 9:39 PM

I think that is what I was saying too...that when I put in a DVD that is 4:3 it is not "side letterboxed". The only time I get the "side letterbox" is when the TV's aspect ratio is set to that.

Now having said this, what I just thought of and did not say above - DVD wise I am using componite outputs and I have an Hi Def set thusly when in that mode I do not have any aspect ratio options on the set. Maybe that is part of the issue here?

donp wrote on 11/12/2005, 12:38 PM

I use Procoder 2 to render my wide screen 16:9 and Anamorphic
files for later authoring. It applys the side bars to all my 16:9 and anamorphic footage and they all play fine on regular 16:9 tv and are boxed in top and bottom and sides on a 4:.3 tv.. I captured with the 16:9 flags set in Scenalyzer 4. edited in Vegas 5b, I think all is working normally here.

farss wrote on 11/12/2005, 1:26 PM

If it's applying bars to 16:9 footage then there's something wrong with your Procoder settings!
What I suspect you've somehow got it to do is letterbox your 16:9 material into a 4:3 frame which is not a good thing as you've thrown away a lot of your vertical resolution.

I've noticed the same problem as scissorfighter on my 16:9 TV, I suspect the TV doesn't respect the flags in the signal coming down the A/V inputs. All works correctly though on my 4:3 Sony monitor.

Actually I've yet to see a TV do this correctly, we've got a TEAC 16:9 TV at work and no matter what we feed it we've got to set the AR on the TV manually.

Bob.