OT: DVD screeners

filmy wrote on 2/7/2005, 11:43 AM
Just thought I would pass this on.

Watermarked DVD-R's have replaced VHS tapes for screening copies sent out at this time of the year (Well ok, Novemeber-ish time of year). The DVD-R disks have individual and unique serial numbers. Deluxe supposedly shipped out 100,000 DVD screeners with 95% of them being in DVD-R format.

For the IFP awards another method was used - NetFlix. No watermarking of any kind but because members had to "order" the DVD's there was a record of everyone who got one and because the DVD's get sent back they didn't have to make so many screeners. Some films did not have any DVD's available because they were still in theatres - NetFlix pressed screener DVD's for 6 films at their own expense. The others the studios created DVD-R's of and sent out on their own.

And the big thing that you all want to know - lawsuits? Yep - in November Carmine Caridi was ordered to pay Warner Brothers and Sony $600,000 because he gave his screeners of The Last Samurai and Big Fish to someone who in turn copied them and in turn bootlegged them. He was also kicked out of the academy because he had been giving away his screeners for the last 3 years. Also note that supposedly other films out on the net also coudl be traced back to screeners given to Carmine - Mystic River , Master and Commander, thirteen and Calendar Girls.

So what was my point in this? I found it interesting for one thing. While it won't fully prevent someone from making a copy of your film or music the unique serial number and watermarking could help greatly in tracking down just who did do it, but could also come back to haunt people. How many people here have garage sales or use a site like e-bay to sell off old DVD's and Cd's? Or even footage libraries or music libraries? Imagine if the "non-transferable" part was *really* enforced? Because you could sell your copy to someone who gives it to someone who then gets robbed and the robber in turn sells it for drug money and so - at some point it turns up being "bootlegged" and you get this knock on your door. Hmmmm...ok, so lets open the floor to debate this one. :)

Comments

B_JM wrote on 2/7/2005, 1:23 PM
almost all screeners have the watermarks and serial numbers removed .... now ..

since they told everyone that they were doing it ...


i have been going through the patent office in the usa record base and in the last month alone there have been 200 patents on encryption and watermarking and such things ...

I saw a few interesting ones (patents) for the theater and video --- i posted info on them in another forum .. some were kinda dangerous and I suggest to follow the directions at this website next time you rent a dvd or go to the theater: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html


the system that was prev. demo'd showing how to watermark films was busted in a just a week - sometime last year ...
nickle wrote on 2/7/2005, 1:59 PM
Wow

I built the aluminum beanie and turned on the T.V. and there were no more commercials.

The downside was that half of the posts on the forum disappeared.

I think the government is going to form a DVD registry which will be just as good as the gun registry except it will cost more and do less.
B_JM wrote on 2/7/2005, 2:29 PM
must be the same people running the canadian gun registry then :)

theceo wrote on 2/7/2005, 3:03 PM
For our five titles this year we gave people a download pass to see the full screen version of our films on-line. I'd say over 95% of the people said ok to our on-line screener. A small amount said they wanted a DVD. We told them we don't do DVD screeners anymore and if they didn't have broadband they could go to kinkos and watch the screener on a high bandwidth connection.

With broadband I don't see why anyone needs a DVD or DVD-R anymore, instant download to media and store buyers via the Net is what we decided to do.

It sure was a lot less money than shipping out a ton of DVD's

The only person I sent a physical DVD to for free was the President of a major studio who emailed me about rights to my films. I asked if he wanted to see the films on-line, he said he would 'prefer' DVDs, so we sent him DVD's.

It took a week for him to get them via 'Express Mail' to Canada from the USA. Cost of 'Express Mail' was 17 bucks, time to deliver 1 week, cost of dvds aroud 10 bucks. It could of been so much easier if he just took downloads like everyone else.



p@mast3rs wrote on 2/7/2005, 3:24 PM
theceo,

you seem to forget who your audience is and forget that what they want is what you have to deliver. While offering broadband viewing is a great service, you are cutting off a segment of your audience who do not wish to be tied to their computer to view your material. Not everyone has their computers hooked to a big screen or living room TV. People love to lounge out on their couches and chairs to watch movies, not computer chairs. Why anyone would cut off potential sales is beyond me.

boomhower wrote on 2/7/2005, 3:40 PM
pmasters:

I can't speak for theceo but I don't think he's saying that he makes people purchase the movie and watch in online....I think he's talking about "screeners" only not his target customer base.

I might be wrong but that was my impression.

KB

[edit: OK Patrick I re-read his post and maybe he is partially saying what you think -- I'm confused-- time for my medication.
B_JM wrote on 2/7/2005, 4:28 PM
there are caps on the amount of content you can download - even on broadband, in many places.

if all the content I have to review was on broadband , i would end up paying about 400$ a month .. (if i wanted to keep decent speed) ..

it only cost $7 CND to ship 5 day service to USA a dvd disk .. so I am surprised it would cost 17$ the other way .. overnight is $29.00 CND though to the east coast USA via fedex ..

theceo wrote on 2/8/2005, 8:27 AM
next time I'll use FedEx, I used USPS for 'express mail' it took five days for their service

we don't charge for 'screeners' in the US there is no 'limit' on broadband via cable modem and such other than the natural limit on the hardware

screeners are intended for people that buy wholesale, at least that's our market for our screeners

they are also intended for media reviewers

the whole industry (movie studios) is moving to broadband distribution, video stores will be like vhs tapes in a few years

blockbuster is so far behind the times they only just got into 'mail order' via the net

that won't last much longer either

what are the studios backing?

www.movielink.com

Studios are on track to control distribution of their movies via downloads

Video stores and Video Net Rentals will be cut off in the near future, since Studios want to control all of the sale via download distribution sites THEY OWN

The highway is built for studios to deliver downloads right to your home

A large percentage of people already have broadband

New computers are ready to receive broadband

How long did it take for people to catch on to downloading songs?

Movie downloads are the future, that's why all the major studios are working together on sites link Movie Link, they want all the profit from post theatre distribution, why sell a video store a DVD for a few bucks and let them rent it out dozens or hundreds of times when you can go right to the public over the net and keep all the money

sure a few people still like beta over vhs, sure a few people still refuse to get a dvd player, sure some still go to video stores, sure a few will still wait for movies via the mail, however the future will be fast internet downloads of movies from sites the studios control, the reason is simple, the studios will make more money

B_JM wrote on 2/8/2005, 8:50 AM
In the usa - there is very much caps on bandwidth on cable and dsl with some isps .. check dslreports or any other number of such forums ...


I am in the film bussness and both review and help produce them on occasion ..

filmy wrote on 2/8/2005, 9:07 AM
>>>Movie downloads are the future, that's why all the major studios are working together on sites link Movie Link....
[SNIP]
...however the future will be fast internet downloads of movies from sites the studios control, the reason is simple, the studios will make more money<<<

The key word is "future". It is still a ways off. It is funny because this thread was started because of how many studios were using DVD-R for oscar screeners "this year" (2004) and here is part of a quote from the manufacturing side - as is studios:

With Netflix partnering with TiVo on a future consumer video-on demand service, the company could theoretically create a system for voters to order electronic screeners directly from their TVs.
[SNIP]
This is follwed by a quote from NetFlix content "officer" Ted Sarandos - Hollywood is a pretty old-school town, nobody likes 'new' and 'fast' here. I think we're married to (DVDs) for a while."

I remember back in..oh..maybe 1996 or 97, at one of the film makets one company was handing out little disks - not yet known officially as a DVD - but the disk contained promos for the films they were selling that year, encoded in a "new" high qulaity format. It was actually what we would now call a Mini-DVD. However at the time no one really new what to do with it...most people, us included, could not play the disks. The first "consumer" DVD recorder came out in 1999 and cost about $2,209.00. And it was only a few years ago - 2002 - that the first major bust was made for DVD bootleging. So if you want to compare - look how long it took for studios to start to really adopt DVD screeners. I am all for the internet, I have been encoding content and doing web stuff for over 10 years now. I once had a guy from Pixar (yes - *that* Pixar) tell me that a studio site I had designed had far too many graphics on it and that people were not going to have time to sit and wait for animated gifs to download let alone promos for films. So don't get me wrong - I do think, and have felt for years and years, that the internet is an awesome tool for people to use. But really I have to agree that Hollywood is pretty old school in a lot of ways. Right now they are finally getting up to DVD's being widely accepted and for the large part still see the internet and downloads as the enemy. When DVD's were first starting to be introduced the concern was "This is like giving people digital masters of our films so they can bootleg them" and it took a while for most to find a comfort zone with that fact. I have seen the same thing with the MPAA and there growing concern over downloads. A few studios are finally "getting it" and doing tests, but short term mass acceptance is not something I see happening.
theceo wrote on 2/8/2005, 8:26 PM
why are sony, paramount and disney in bed together at movielink.com?

because ti is the future, studios will soon phase out video stores by controlling 100% of the profit from post theatrical release of films

from Movie Link about us page

"Movielink (www.movielink.com) is the leading broadband movie download service offering U.S. customers an extensive selection of new and classic hit movies, foreign films and other hard-to-find content. The service is owned and operated by Movielink, LLC, a joint venture of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Universal Studios and Warner Bros. Studios. Movielink draws its content offerings from the vast libraries of those studios as well as Walt Disney Pictures, Miramax, Artisan and others on a non-exclusive basis. "

JOINT PROJECT BY

MGM
SONY
PARAMOUNT
UNIVERSAL
WARNER BROS.

That is Hollywood

MovieLink.com is already a top 5K site as ranked by Alexa

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=movielink.com

Why would the major studios all be in bed together on a major project if it wasn't the future. That future is already here, they run one of the busiest sites in the world, it will probably be top 2000 within the year then top 1000 then top 500

There's 50 million web sites in the world ~

They're top 5K already

Yet, some think movie downloads are far off?

It's here right now and it's gonna take over post theatrical if not theatrical distribution.

Why even bother releasing to a movie theatre?

I get 10 bucks right now for my new release movies (that's why a major film studio is after my films)

I just released a film that people are paying 20 bucks to download.

Yes I sell DVDs, retail 39.99

I could sell a little more at 19.99 but my stuff isn't mass market appeal, it's niche marketed stuff, and I have a huge client base that has been paying 29.99 to 499.99 for electronic downloads from me for years.

Amazon can't get 9.99 for a Stephen King ebook, my cheapest ebook is 29.99, I sell obscure stuff for 49.99 and 99.99

I have an author with a 17 volume set that gets almost 500 bucks for a download.

The net is going to be the main distribution point for movies in the future. Especially after some terrorist groups start to use theatres for distributing biological weapons.

You look at where the world is heading and you see the projects the major studios have and you see the future.

THE FUTURE IS NOW

People pay for convience and in my experience they pay for information that is niche oriented.

Terrorists hit movie theatres with a biological weapon and within a week the major studios are advertising HERE IS OUR NEW RELEASE DOWNLOAD IT NOW

Overnight movie theatres and video stores are obsolete

Hey someone want to make a movie on this :-)

B_JM wrote on 2/9/2005, 3:46 AM
Well I might go to movielink and check it out if it were not blocking anyone outside the usa ,,
I see they are doing less than 1/10 of 1 % of the total amount of distribution of movies ..Not a lot... even apple has a bigger share than that ..

Alexa ranks our website videohelp.com much higher, but that's nothing - this forum and site here is ranked 3 times higher at 1,308... netflix is ranked at 169 ..

Movielink has a library of 250 films (soon more). Viewers pay between $3 and $5 to download a film and store it on their PC for up to 30 days. Once they start watching the film, they have 24 hours to finish viewing it, at which point it is automatically deleted. Users can try the service free by downloading the Oscar-winning animated short The ChubbChubbs.
Quality of the highly compressed movies is not that great and audio was rated poor to good.
It has yet to interest mainstream consumers .

With the big competition between online rental (netflix , zip, walmart and others) and blockbuster - I see no reason why someone would be stupid enough to pay 3-5$ to download a crappy highly compressed version of a movie (if they can even find what they want as i see no recent big name releases) they could rent and keep as long as they like (or up to 30days in some cases) for about 2$ !


I applaud their efforts , but it's to little, to late, offering not to much to only a few .. much as the lame effort of the "new" napster ... The real way it appears to make everyone warm and comfortable about (this part) of the media industry is to sue everyone you can ..