OT: Faster workflow with Sony DVD camcorder?

ken c wrote on 9/19/2004, 7:56 PM
Anyone know if these camcorders are any good for creating video (short of getting a regular 3-chip camcorder)?

Sony DCRDVD201 DVD Camcorder

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001MAB06/ref=ase_dealcutcom/103-8321498-6581412?v=glance&s=photo

I don't know what the resolution is, or if they can be forced to create uncompressed avi captures to the mini-DVD... likely not, eg probably compresses on the fly to vobs, which would be bad for editing in Vegas, plus quality loss..

I'm just thinking, the workflow would be much faster, using one of these, to just copy files to a hard drive to edit, vs videocapturing in realtime to hard drive as usual in vegas off DV tapes..

any feedback on these? where would they be useful in the workflow, if at all?

reading amazon reviews, it looks like image quality's not as good as regular DV, so that's a reason I'd skip it.. also will it take an external mic? and there's apparently disc noise while it's operating..

so, maybe just "for fun use only" with family, vs pro DV/editing work..ah well.

what's a good 3-chip camcorder for pro videography that's under 3k that's good? appreciate any tips, I need to buy a new one..

thx..

ken

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 9/19/2004, 8:05 PM
Run away fast and be very very scared!

These only record in standard DVD format with AC3 audio. They're really only good for "snapshot" type videos that never need to be editing. If you do decide to edit you'll have to decode the VOB file into separate AVI and WAV files. Optically they're probably the same quality as most MiniDV cameras, but the video is compressed to MPEG-2 on the fly and a lot is lost that way.

So far, about the best way found for getting the video into your computer is to play the analog output into the line input of an A/V->DV converter and then capture the DV through firewire. This is a real-time operation so it wouldn't save you any time.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/19/2004, 8:13 PM
These camcorders are for people who want to tape the kids and immediately watch it on TV with no editing. Don’t even consider one if you want to edit or if quality is a factor. It’s the new VHS. Record direct to DVD and watch it. That’s what its good for.

~jr
apit34356 wrote on 9/19/2004, 8:39 PM
Going from a marginal meg2 encoding from DVD into vegas is not a plus, but a xdcam recording format on the 201 would be great or straight dv output on the disc would be a great feature. The new Sony HD using the xdcam format would be a big step for big for work flow, but not likely to occur too soon. Cheaper and faster to invest into a hd portable unit that can directly record from camera. Since you know about DV Rack, I assume you're looking for easy carrying and min. hardware.
farss wrote on 9/19/2004, 8:43 PM
And be warned, pulling the ac3 audio and mpeg-2 streams back from the DVDs it creates is a NIGHTMARE. The ac3 stream has non ac3 data in it which means you have to run it through ac3Fix first and then say BeSweet. Also there is something odd about the field order in the mpeg-2 stream that I was never able to get 100 % right.
If you really want to save time there's some nice direct to hard disk devices around now. With a MiniDV camera you can have the thing on tape as well just in case and the HD recorder will keep running while you change tapes.

I see just about every second local competition offering these DVD camcorders as a 'prize', does that say something about them?

Bob.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/19/2004, 9:20 PM
If you want to get the workflow advantages of this device, without the quality problems already mentioned, then consider getting one of the many hard disk recorders that are designed to attach directly to your camcorder. These completely eliminate the need to wait to capture to tape: you start editing right away. Also, most of them can hold many hours of video, thus eliminating the one hour (SP mode) limit on standard mini-DV tapes.
ken c wrote on 9/20/2004, 3:07 PM
Thanks, I'll stay clear of that sony dvd recorder...

Re direct to HD, that sounds like the best solution ... eg I have DV rack, can stick that on the laptop for monitoring... didn't know about recording to an external HD drive directly off the camcorder, agree that would be the best..

Any suggestions on an external HD device that could attach to the camcorder? That would be great, eg a firewire based HD drive.. so far I just know about the regular external firewire HD drives, I have a bunch on my regular pc ... how would you take the signal from a camcorder's firewire output and record directly to HD? Seems I'd need a pc in the loop somewhere..

I like editing on vegas in a 3-monitor system (not a laptop) ...

Hmm thinking out loud here, how about simply going camcorder output into DV Rack or Vegas on the laptop, recording uncompressed AVI into an external HD attached to the laptop?

Then I could just unplug the HD from the laptop, plug into my main editing pc, and that would be it .. sound like a good idea?


Ken
rs170a wrote on 9/20/2004, 3:25 PM
Any suggestions on an external HD device that could attach to the camcorder?

I know that Firestore makes a few different units. Not sure about the price or the reliability though. As I recall, someone on this forum either owns or has tried them. Hopefully they'll jump in here with an opinion.

Mike
apit34356 wrote on 9/20/2004, 3:30 PM
Spot have written a review or two about HD devices for camcorders. Check VASST or DMN forum for articles.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/20/2004, 3:32 PM
Then I could just unplug the HD from the laptop, plug into my main editing pc, and that would be it .. sound like a good idea?

You can't just connect the drive to the camcorder and expect it to record. What is missing (among other things) is the control logic and file system "stuff" (technical term) that your computer provides. Also, you need a source of power for the drive while in the field.

Do a search on "Firestore" for discussions about one such product. Here is a link to their site:

Firestore

Here's one of many previous forum posts:

External Capture Devices
farss wrote on 9/20/2004, 3:41 PM
We and others have had problems with the Firestore during file changeover.
If you have DV Rack then you can use that. Connect external f/wire drive to laptop, camera as well and use DV Rack or VidCap to capture to the external drive. If all of that's too much kit then these look pretty damn good:

http://www.videoguys.com.au/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=76

Need to do a search for a local supplier. I think these are the ones SPOT was raving about and they've recently been upgraded.

Bob.