OT: First 4K Production-to-Post Feature Film

Coursedesign wrote on 5/6/2008, 11:14 AM
Last night I attended a private industry screening of "Reach For Me", a film directed by Levar Burton (remember "Geordi La Forge" in Star Trek of yore?), held at the great Landmark Theater in West L.A.

This was the first showing ever of a whole feature film shot in 4K with full post production in 4K and projection in 4K.

No, it wasn't the RED, but a Dalsa Origin camera developed with Sony, and projected through a Sony 4K projector.

There wasn't a dry eye in the audience afterwards, really quite a movie, about some real characters in a hospice. Very nice acting, with good chemistry between the actors.

And the 4K?

I thought it was a new aesthetic, unlike both film and "digital cinema."

Very painterly, not "hyper-realistic" like say studio-shot HDTV seen Over-The-Air, and there is nothing in between the scene and the viewer either (like with "film").

It really was like the very best of film, but without the "film" in front of the screen, and without any of the harshness that plagues a lot of digitally shot material (I'm talking about something very subtle, related to lack of gradation and more).

In still photography, this would be prints from a large format camera compared with the output of a 35mm SLR or even a medium format Hasselblad.

The difference in tonal resolution has nothing to do with just "sharpness," and while it may require some experience to be able to point to it, it surely has an emotional impact on even the numbest people.

I have seen single column newspaper photos, perhaps 2 inches across, where it was possible to say immediately that this was shot with a large format camera.

In the discussion with the filmmakers afterwards, they also confirmed that the 4K difference survived downrezzing to lesser formats, even 35mm film that it otherwise surpasses (35mm projection prints can have amazing resolution and tonality, beyond what can be seen with material originated on 35mm camera stock).

Amazingly there already are 200 4K projectors in the U.S., out of 40,000 theater projectors total here. It's just the 4K movies that have been missing.

Piracy at the theater has always been a concern in this industry (it goes back to the beginning of movie theaters), but Sony's 4K system helps with that too.

Each "print" is encrypted and locked to one particular projector for a particular time period (the exhibitionist's rental time). It is theft-resistant from shipping to return, and a lot less expensive to ship too (can even be handled via download).

In shooting, the DP said the camera is set up once, and not tinkered with further, in contrast to HD and 2K where DITs are normally quite busy.

In shooting 4K with the Dalsa camera, adjustments are made with light, like when shooting film...

Really quite a treat, it truly offers a superior experience that is not about getting "more pixels across," but a new aesthetic that can allow really good acting to shine through in a different way compared to 35mm, 70mm, HD, 2K, etc.

It's different, so it won't fit everything, because sometimes you may want a lot of grit say, but this is like a new school of painting.

Even the top Sony guy there was joking that SONY stood for "Soon, Only Not Yet" but he was thrilled with the end result of many years of 4K development.

I think this will spread like wildfire once more filmmakers see what it can do.

I'll also be curious to see RED footage projected in 4K side-by-side with Dalsa Origin footage. RED seems to have some of that painterly quality, without the "film" on the surface, but I haven't seen end results of this caliber yet.

Let's hope for plenty of competition and trickle down!

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/6/2008, 11:32 AM

Levar Burton was actually Lieutenant Geordi La Forge. Brent Spiner was Data.

Cheno wrote on 5/6/2008, 11:35 AM
"a film directed by Levar Burton (remember "Data"?)"

Not to get geeky on you (I didn't watch ST:TNG), but Burton played Geordi La Forge ;)

I was drooling over the Dalsa at NAB - You'll see more and more IMAX go this way as well and projected? Wow. 4K, though? I can't even imagine how awesome that would have looked for a full feature.

I totally agree with it being a new "style" of painting. So many are sold that digital is it and film is on it's way out. I prefer to think of it as we've just added more brushes to use when painting the canvas.

Thanks for the update, Course!

cheno


edit: - Hah! Hey Jay, wanna go watch Star Trek? hhahahahah
michaelshive wrote on 5/6/2008, 1:11 PM
Not sure if anyone got the chance to sit in on the screening room at the Red booth @ NAB but they showed 4K stuff projected with a 4K projector and it really looked spectacular. The screen size was limited due to the size of the booth so I'm anxious to see 4K on a big screen but the quality really was eyepopping.
farss wrote on 5/6/2008, 2:27 PM
I have seen 4K projected but from 65mm neg, on a pretty big screen and I was only meters from the screen, it is truly mind blowing. As it was intercut with 1080 shot on the F900 the difference was staggering.
The very best 35mm camera neg is capable of 4K res but going through the traditional photochemical process the release print delivers 700 lines res. Originating at 4K and printing the masters at that would deliver a very superior result even for traditional projection.

Now all they need to do is up the fps. Temporal res x spatial res = perceived resolution :)

Bob.
Coursedesign wrote on 5/6/2008, 3:01 PM
Bob, you're right about higher temporal resolution being another brush that would be good to have.

24 fps is a legitimate brush for creating a sense of dreaminess though.

The thing about say 60 fps 4K is the staggering amount of data this would lead to.

This about 90 min. feature film took up about 3 TB at 24 fps, and they were using 10GigE networking and more to keep up...

The screen at the Landmark was chosen because it was VERY large, and the high resolution meant that surface gradations didn't break up even when sitting in the first row.

Ouch on the Data error, thanks for the correction! :O)

Seth wrote on 5/6/2008, 4:23 PM
I wish this could be Vegas news, but Vegas tops out at 2k max project res. Maybe in Vegas Pro 8.1, right?
apit34356 wrote on 5/6/2008, 5:51 PM
"The thing about say 60 fps 4K is the staggering amount of data this would lead to. " 60fps at 4K would probably "overwhelm" the average viewer for awhile, as they tried to focus on the whole screen.......... not for the slow-minded individuals ;-)
farss wrote on 5/6/2008, 6:03 PM
Probably the exact opposite, IMAX already runs at 48fps.
As viewing angles get bigger you need higher fps.
As for the amount of data, the source is discreet frames so yes monster amounts of data however Cineform do have Prospect4K in beta.

Bob.
Coursedesign wrote on 5/6/2008, 7:31 PM
60fps at 4K would probably "overwhelm" the average viewer for awhile, as they tried to focus on the whole screen.......... not for the slow-minded individuals ;-)

It's the opposite actually.

You look wherever you feel like looking.

It is all more calm.

Less choppy, so less distraction whenever there is movement.
Serena wrote on 5/6/2008, 8:37 PM
The general projection rate for IMAX is still 24 fps, even though the switching rate for IMAX 3D is 96 views/sec. IMAX HD is 48 fps, but I don't think that format is common. Getting that film to start and stop 24 times a second is hard enough! However maybe I'm out of date?
farss wrote on 5/6/2008, 9:34 PM
"However maybe I'm out of date?"

Not at all it would seem. If one can believe Wikipaedia then as you said only IMAX HD runs at 48fps. It was proposed in 1992 but deemed too expensive (no surprise there) although a number of theatres were upgraded to show it and a few movies made for it.

I'd read so many posts saying it was 48fps, some in rather respectable circles that I'd never questioned it, just goes to show...

Bob.
John_Cline wrote on 5/6/2008, 10:17 PM
Speaking of IMAX, it appears that they are going digital.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-05-05-imax_N.htm
Spot|DSE wrote on 5/7/2008, 8:43 AM
Not that it really matters, but Sony and Peter Jackson made a bit of a big deal that "King Kong" was the first 4K feature from production to end? WETA and Nucoda claim they had to write new software to manage the matches. Perhaps it wasn't all 4K, or maybe it was overhyped?
Coursedesign wrote on 5/7/2008, 9:00 AM
The original King Kong was film-scanned in 4K.

The recent remake was definitely shot on film.

Here's more info about the 4K post on "Reach For Me".

Cheno wrote on 5/7/2008, 9:01 AM
Looking but can't find anything on King Kong being 4K - I know Nucoda used color timing technolgy that was capable of handling 4K but IMDB shows Super 35 aquisition and print back to 35mm - may not have even showed digitally? Didn't see it in the theatres.

I was under the impression that the big hype of NAB '06 was Peter Jackson being "lulled" from traditional cinematography over to digital with Red and that he hadn't done any 4K stuff prior.

could be wrong though.

Spot|DSE wrote on 5/7/2008, 9:14 AM
thanks for setting me straight, Course.
Coursedesign wrote on 5/7/2008, 9:19 AM
Nucoda handles formats "from iPod to IMAX."

Gotta love that statement.

One more thing:

How do you archive a 4K feature?

Even the LTO3 data tapes don't last long enough, and salt mine storage doesn't help.

*DRUM ROLL*

The current state-of-the-art is to laser print the 4K footage to three color-separations on black-and-white 35mm film. Good for a century or more.
apit34356 wrote on 5/7/2008, 10:43 AM
"The current state-of-the-art is to laser print the 4K footage to three color-separations on black-and-white 35mm film." Old is new again,,,, ;-) interesting would be 200-32bit channel layers with GCI vector graphic DXP data on a single 35mm per frame using a modulated laser. Permitting future workstations to improve on old GCI effects without massive recreation of workflow effort.