OT: Great value on Silver DVD-R

riredale wrote on 5/24/2004, 3:43 PM

Between that and the Ritek G04 disks you can pick up at places like www.meritline.com for a similar price, I have to laugh when I go into a CompUSA or Fry's and see 5-packs of DVD-R blanks for $15. I get the urge to grab customers by the lapels and shout, "Hey! Don't you realize you're paying five times too much??!!! " Fortunately I am a professional and can control my urges.

winrockpost wrote on 5/24/2004, 4:27 PM

Randy,, how well does the print holdup on the disc, smudging and such ?

Thanks

Randy Brown wrote on 5/24/2004, 4:31 PM

Well I just rubbed my thumb pretty hard across one...no smudging and nothing on my thumb : )
Randy

craftech wrote on 5/24/2004, 4:47 PM

I think the compatibility and reliability are the most important issues. If this is the Prodis....cS0 media as identified ny DVD Identifyer it has taken a turn for the worse according to DVDRhelp.com

John

Randy Brown wrote on 5/24/2004, 4:52 PM

Don't know John, all I can tell you is that I will definitely be re-oredering : ) With my set-up (DVDA2, Epson R300, and Sony DRU 500 A) I am VERY happy!
With them being as cheap as $0.59 each and free shipping and a 30 day guarantee, how can one go wrong trying them?
Randy

craftech wrote on 5/24/2004, 5:17 PM

I guess my main concern would be if customers start sending them back because they won't play.

John

Randy Brown wrote on 5/24/2004, 5:31 PM

Good point John, I'm testing them on a $178 Panasonic DVD/VHS combo and a $59 SVA (brand X) player and have had no problem so far with the first 22 DVDs at 4X.
Randy

craftech wrote on 5/24/2004, 5:36 PM

Randy,
What is the media ID returned by DVD Identifyer?
John

Randy Brown wrote on 5/24/2004, 5:56 PM

Please elaborate John, I don't have a clue what you're talking about unless it is matching up the numbers on the ring of an individual disk to the chart on the site you provided. If that's the case I can not read them...sorry
Randy

craftech wrote on 5/24/2004, 6:48 PM

This utility will tell you who manufactured the discs:

DVD Identifier

John

Randy Brown wrote on 5/24/2004, 7:07 PM

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:ProdiscS03 ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc Type : [DVD-R]
Manufacturer ID : [ProdiscS03 ]
Disc Application Code : [Unrestricted Use : Consumer Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x - 2x - 4x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3 MB = 4.38 GB]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks like it matches the one you spoke of (S03) but it also looks like it has had good results according to that website)...is there something I missed. I can tell you that in my case I'm at #34 with no problems at 4x.
Randy

craftech wrote on 5/25/2004, 5:41 AM

Yes, it does look like the same ID as the one I mentioned. My only concern was that the MOST RECENT reviews of the media on that site I linked (DVDRhelp) indicated a turn for the worse whereas previously it seemed to fare as well as the Ritek G04 in terms of compatibility.
I haven't gotten a single DVD back using Ritek G04 DVD-R (both plain and white inkjet printable) burned with DVDA 1.0 at 1x speed (which actually is burning at 2x due to a reporting error which DVDA exhibits with some media) and using a Pioneer 105. It even plays on players which are old and/or notorious for not playing DVDRs well.
I wouldn't mind saving some money, but I am a little nervous about consistency. Are you going to be distributing the DVDs to a lot of customers to try? I actually spent a year giving them away for free in exchange for returning a feedback form with specifics as to player make and model, etc.
When I came up with the combination above, it was after I was sure that I wouldn't get any of them back with complaints that they wouldn't play. So far so good.

John

Randy Brown wrote on 5/25/2004, 7:13 AM

John said>>Are you going to be distributing the DVDs to a lot of customers to try?<<

Yes, I'll be delivering today and they should be all distributed and played by the weekend. If I get any returns I'll reply to this thread.
One day I hope we'll all look back, laugh, and say..."remember when buying DVD media was a crap shoot?!"
Randy

TVCmike wrote on 5/25/2004, 7:52 AM

Media is still a crapshoot to buy. Honestly, I don't know why people are so concerned over getting cheap bulk media. Does longevity and reliability count for anything any more?

I have steered all of my clients towards MAM-A/Mitsui Gold Archive or Verbatim Datalife Plus writeables. I have done extensive research on this and come up with these two brands as being the best. Like I said to my clients, why bother doing a production for a client only to give them a disc with unknown longevity and reliability guarantees? The vast majority of people on videohelp.com are doing DVD rips of movies they own/rent, not professional production.

Flame on, but I always believe in giving customers the best product that I know of if I can.

Randy Brown wrote on 5/25/2004, 7:59 AM

Oh well see Mike, that's where we differ...I'm a money-grubbing bastard and don't really give a crap about my clients : )
Randy

craftech wrote on 5/25/2004, 7:59 AM

have steered all of my clients towards MAM-A/Mitsui Gold Archive or Verbatim Datalife Plus writeables. I have done extensive research on this and come up with these two brands as being the best.

--------------------------------------
Further research would have revealed that Verbatim media is alternately manufactured by any of the following companies:
Ricoh
CMC Magnetics
Taiyo Yuden
MItsubishi Chemical Corporation
Ritek

John

TVCmike wrote on 5/25/2004, 8:39 AM

Ok, let me be a bit more specific here for my own good.

It's the organic writing material and lamination/fabrication that make the difference here. If you can find identical media that has a different brand name that identifies in exactly the same way, then fine. Cheap cyanine dyes are awful, as are discs that leave any organic material exposed at the edge due to poor disc fabrication techniques.

That's why I mentioned not only manufacturer but also specific model of media. I doubt Datalife Plus discs will identify as anything but what they are in the future, but I keep checking. Truth is, some of Verbatim's lower-end line is awful including there plain "Datalife" discs. I had lengthy discussions both with Maxell and TDK on the NAB show floor this year, and none of them appear to be as concerned about media longevity and reliability as I was. Hopefully the message sunk in and we'll start seeing some more products targeted for this purpose in the future.

I don't advocate just one single brand either. I don't want to seem like a fanboy because that's not what I want to come off as in here. I have zero loyalty to a company and 100% loyalty to the performance of a particular product. My sentiment may change in the future, but I tried to be specific just to be specific. I've simply had great luck with both Verbatim's and MAM-A's most premium discs.

Ultimately, it's up to each person what they want to choose for writeable media. I just think that people should be informed of the risks of going another direction.

TVCmike wrote on 5/25/2004, 8:40 AM

I knew it from the first time I saw your name Randy. ;)

johnmeyer wrote on 5/25/2004, 9:06 AM

But how do you really know what is good media? The DVDrHelp site is a wonderful resource, but the media tests are nothing more than collected anecdotal accounts. Have you ever had a disc that didn't work and then blamed DVDA, or the media, or your DVD burner, only to find out later that it was something else that caused the problem? So did many of the people that posted their results at DVDrHelp, I am sure.

The only way to really know is to do controlled testing, holding constant ALL the variables, except media, and then test, both for compatibility and -- using accelerated aging tests -- for longevity. Such tests were performed a decade ago on CD-ROMs by Kodak as well as by independent companies. At least one similar test was done two years ago on DVDs, and the results were published. The problem is that such test are expensive, and there isn't a single commercial entity that would benefit from such a study. Also, the tests need to be periodically updated as new media is introduced and old media is phased out, or as manufacturing standards change.

The author who organized the only published study that I have been able to find, has occasionally made comments about more recent tests. See my post here for more details:

DVD media test results

TVCmike wrote on 5/25/2004, 10:35 AM

The only sure way to know what constitutes good media is, as you said, exhaustive testing using accelerated aging and carefully controlling variables. In lieu of that, I think that good anecdotal evidence coupled with a rigorous testing program for bit errors on your discs on a regular basis using K's CD/DVD Probe is a good way to go. As a disc begins to break down, the data redundancy will slowly disappear even though the disc will still technically be readable. If you see signs of degredation, it's time to duplicate them to new media.

As for compatibility, I agree that different media results in different levels of compatibility. One of the tricks that I wish was employed in factory firmware for DVD drives is the media descriptor bit setting. Being able to set this bit to "DVD-ROM" apparently solves most of the problems of media compatibility. It's sad that none of that firmware is sanctioned officially. Mind you, if you're doing large-scale duplication using glass masters the media compatibility issue switches to one of quality of manufacturer and their process.