OT - Hard Drive Cameras

Jim H wrote on 11/10/2008, 8:36 PM
I've been tasked to suggest a Hard Drive camera to be used for capturing local happenings for our public access channel. We'll be looking to buy 5 or 6 cameras and I think the price range we want is less than $1,500 each.

I know that's not enough to buy a pro camera but as of now we got some guys using VHS camcorders so anything will be a huge improvement.

The only specs I thought of were the Hard Drive so as to be able to capture town meetings and such which run more than two or three hours; and Mic inputs.

I ended up looking at the Sony HDR-SR11 60GB High Definition Handycam® Camcorder: HDR-SR11

Does anyone have any thoughts on this they could share?
Do other NLE other than Vegas handle this AVCHD file format?
I've never tried shooting SD footage on my HC1 so I'm being lazy by asking, Does the SD footage capture at 4:3 or 16:9?

Thanks

Comments

tcbetka wrote on 11/10/2008, 9:11 PM
I have an SR11, and love it. It shoots incredible footage, IMO. We bought it about 6 weeks or so ago and just love it. Shortly after buying the SR11 we bought a mint used Sony HDR-FX1, and the SR11 compares very favorably to the FX1. Of course the FX1 has the ability to set many features manually, whereas the SR11 doesn't--but it does an amazing job in any event. We paid just over $800 from Abe's of Maine.

Canon makes a couple of hard drive cameras, I believe they are the HF series units. We looked at them but in the end I decided on the Sony because I intended to buy an VX2100, and I wanted to stay with the same manufacturer. Well after seeing how good HD really looked, I abandoned the VX2100 idea in favor of the FX1. Incidentally, the Canon units are rated higher than the Sony SR11/12 on camcorderinfo.com, so that's something that might be important to you. It wasn't to me, as the SR12 was rated very well, and only slightly lower than the Canon HF series, as I recall.

I don't think you can go wrong with the SR11/12 cameras.



EDIT: Almost forgot to answer your NLE vs AVCHD question. I have been trying to sniff around the various NLE forums, and it does appear that most NLEs seem to indeed have issues handling the AVCHD format. There are various steps you can take to work around this issue including running a 64-bit OS and Vegas version 8.1, and transcoding the AVCHD clips into the HDV format with UpShift. There's also GearShift, if your PC is a bit older. I have never used GearShift but have used UpShift quite a bit, and it works very well. I also use Vegas 8.1 (and 8c), and find that it does a very nice job with AVCHD files if you don't need to use plug-ins (8.1 has a bit of a problem with plug-ins.) So there are a couple of ways you can get around the AVCHD issues in Vegas...at least until SCS releases an updated version 8/8.1, or a new version.

But I believe that *all* of the NLEs have issues with AVCHD.


TB
Rory Cooper wrote on 11/10/2008, 10:00 PM
I use a Canon hg 10

I personally don’t have a problem with AVCHD but my clips are all short I know what I want .shoot done and edit

I suppose shooting docs and lengthy clips might be a different issue, I use a dual core on the chain gang and at home a quad which is quicker
This is important when working with AVCHD you need a good PC

I shot some wine stuff for an Ad with AVCHD I was very happy with the quality so this is the path for me from now on
tcbetka wrote on 11/11/2008, 5:09 AM
Oops...my mistake. The Canon hard drive camera are the HG series, not the HF series. The HF cameras are flash drive units.

Also, http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.phphere[/link] are camcorderinfo.com's ratings on top video cameras for the last 1-2 years. I think you'll notice that the Canon units seem to do pretty well...

TB
blink3times wrote on 11/11/2008, 7:10 AM
Canon cams are rated a bit higher than the Sony line of cams for better overall picture quality, but they are not nearly as well built. Sony cams are quite solid and take quite a punishment where as Canon cams don't. I have the Sony HC3, HC7, and the Canon HV20. My HC3 is now 3 years old and still functions like new. My Canon on the other hand at 1/2 the age has not stood the test of time nearly as well. Little things no longer function properly anymore like the auto lens cover for example.

I don't know how important the sound is to you but the SR11/12 also have real 5.1 surround sound ability while the Canons don't. I plan on buying a HDD cam in the New Year, and having dealt with both Sony and Canon, I will most likely settle on the SR11 as well.
Jim H wrote on 11/11/2008, 8:15 AM
Thanks for the feedback so far! One of the comments raises concerns for me. That is the fact that we'll be recording LONG meetings and pretty much dumping the videos on air with little or "no" editing save for a title at the beginning perhaps. I was thinking of a couple Q6600 based PCs for editing at the station.

With a staff of retired old folks running the cameras and doing their own editing, I was hoping the hard drive would make it simple to drag files to the PC for editing. One of the complaints I'm getting trying to convert this station to digital is ripping the old analog equipment from their crusty old fingers. Getting them to sit while video captures..ie. a two hour meeting... would be a killer. Then having to render it again just so they can add a title at the beginning just does not make sense to them.

1. Do large continuous video files cause the problems?
2. What is the file format of the raw video off the camera?
3. Would our LEIGHTRONIX NEXUS handle the conversion without an interim render if all we want to do is play the unedited file?
4. Will my head be planted on a post if I try to hand these cameras and a NLE (Vegas) over to the masses?

Stay tuned....lol
tcbetka wrote on 11/11/2008, 8:40 AM
Great points about how well the Sony stuff is built B3T. Before buying the Sony, I sent my wife over to Best Buy to look at Canon cameras, versus Sony. I think they had a Canon HF unit there, but they also had a Sony SR12. I remember talking to her on the phone when she was looking at each camera, and her words on the Sony were something like "My God...the thing is built like a TANK!" The Canon definitely was lighter in construction. But about the picture quality difference between the two--yes there is some, but if you read the Canon HG reviews side-by-side with the Sony SR11/12 reviews, there really isn't *that* much difference. I remember taking a full day just to go through those two reviews on that site, and being unimpressed with the differences between the two.

As to that unit you mentioned Jim, I cannot speak to how easy it would be. But as for importing the .m2ts files from the SR11, it's a piece of cake. The Sony application does it for you--just create a project folder that you'll use in Vegas, and point the Sony app at it and voila...let her rip. It's a no-brainer, and it doesn't take nearly as long as capturing the video from my FX1.

I just don't think you can go wrong with the SR11, IMO...

TB