Yes, I am paying for replication and packaging. I would be sending the shelf-ready DVDs to them.

I had 1,000 replicated, and everything, including shipping cost me $1,650.00, so $1.65 each. I still need to hear back on what larger quantities will cost.

Thank you,

Jon

I had a recent job where they had 6,000 replicated - I was happy to make $1 per copy - I had already been paid for shooting and editing.

Will the replicator give you that price only for the full run or on a contract to fill that
yearly amount?

If you must store product, where and at what cost.
(Don't say your garage or basement until you get wife's approval!)

MSRP and "sale price" might be closer to $15 allowing net
of $11 for the non-profit. This would be inline with other "gift shop" stuff.

Could the information become outdated? Any chance of buyback of excess
stock? (you might be able to dump on ebuy..)

You decide to just charge a production fee and let group pay replicator
directly or get a percentage.

You might want to check with your accountant. Anything you give to a non-profit can be written off your taxes. You might be able to work a deal where you sell them the disks for a low price but have the difference between the price that they pay and the value assigned written off your taxes as a charitable donation.

Peter:

Hmmm. Yeah. I HAVEN'T been paid for shooting or editing. I took this project on on my own. A couple thousand dollars (insurance, filming permits, etc) and well over a thousand hours in filming/editing.

RC:

I haven't had that conversation with my replicator yet. I am used to storing a couple thousand DVDs at home. I have a large, otherwise unused room.

So you're saying that with an MSRP of $20, the non-profit will be looking at what they will get if they sell at $15? And that they should net $11; in which case asking $4 wholesale would be the ballpark? That sounds a little low to me (would leave me with a little over $2 each), but I guess that IS why I'm asking - because I really don't know.

I authored the DVD with the intentional thought of trying not to include specific information on things that can become outdated (i.e. specific prices - but more a general "inexpensive" or "not cheap" etc). There is a new permit requirement for Half Dome day hikes. Since new "red tape" often changes in the beginning, I give a web page for customers to get the current requirements. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I expect it to be a long time before it goes out of date.

Jon

Laurence:

Hmmm. Good thought. That could "create" more income.

Thats $4000-$4300 in addition to your production fee.
If you did not charge that separately, then adjust.
I would charge for production so they know what to expect for
other future projects such as advertising, kiosks, etc.

400-500% markup for gift shop is reasonable. (Look at stuffed animals
$1.50 wholesale going for $7.50)

You need the MSRP with an average of "20% discount" to spur impulse
buying of your DVD.

If this is a truly Non-Profit retailer, wouldn't you sell for $19.95, he sells for $19.95 and doesn't make a profit....

Non-profits want to make all the money they can. They don't pay shareholders but they have lots of expenses. These days grant money is pretty hard to come by and they are probably in the red. Since you didn't make any money for the production up front, I would charge them half of what they sell the disks for. That way they'll make money on sales and be encouraged to sell the discs. Who knows, maybe you'll get several runs out of it. If you keep your masters, you can add a little update and do an updated version in a few years. It could be a good moneymaker long term even if it doesn't pay off right away.

Non-profits use the "profit" to support a goal. You are dealing with two entities.
The board that oversees the operation of the park and the manager of the gift shop.
The manager will report that this DVD has the potential of making a profit of $xx,xxx
over the course of a year. The board will also look at SNP as a company to create
advertising to attract hikers-campers.

... I would charge them half of what they sell the disks for...

I would probably too. I work a lot for non-profit org. and I tell them that I need all my expences covered and I need some extra to put aside to buy new gear and keep existing running. The hours I normaly give for free. It also depends whether you do it as a hobby, as I do, or you have to make a living of it, IMO.

/Ulf

Thanks guys! Now I have an idea of what to take into consideration.

Jon

The fact is that I am pretty sure most retailers can't get for profit DVD's at keystone prices most of the time, (Keystone = being able to mark up their products by 100% and sell them).

That's a huge margin for them, and is very kind if you want to give them that much of a margin, but I'd be willing to bet that on most DVD's the retailers are making more like 30% or less on each sale.

If you want to give them more that's very kind, and you clearly have the room to work ( Your supply chain is very short compared to some DVD's, and so it shouldn't cost you as much overall ).

Dave

> The fact is that I am pretty sure . . . .

So, are you saying it is a "fact" or are you surmising?

A] Profit = Is what I have left after all my costs are met.

B] Markup = Is what I put on a good or service that I buy in.

Now tell me what is a "margin"? And specifically here, what it relates to?

Are you speaking of a profit in isolation of ALL other costs?

Grazie

I think the fact that your customer is a non profit is irrelevant. I used to sell slides to a nonprofit for gift shop sales (California Academy of Sciences.) M y wholesale was around $.40 for a retail of $1.00, a markup of 133%. Books in the same gift shop were not marked up more than 100%. $14.95 would seem to be a good price point, and a wholesale of $5.99 would return you around $4.00 gross profit. On sales of 2,000 it starts to make a reasonable return on your production investment.

Ralph

Are you doing less work because they are a non-profit?

I would charge them the same as I would charge anyone else.
Them being a non-profit organization means absolutely nothing. They are an organization that needs/wants your services. You are an organization that gets paid a certain rate because you deliver a certain quality for said services.

One of the worst things I think we as Professionals can do is DeValue what we do.
Let those that feel their Niece/Nephew can do what you do via her/his iMac/Final Cut Express setup - go for it.

Non-Profit does NOT mean they do not make a profit. It just means that their profits are not taxed. My last job was with a Non-Profit... the CEO just finished building his Multi-Million Dollar house using the Non-Taxed profits.

--Believe me... they have more money than you think and can probably afford more than you would ever charge. In all honesty, I feel if you're delivery Top Quality... you should be paid for it... no matter the Tax Status of the client.

arenel:

Seems my calculations matched yours; I asked 5.95

sync2rythm:

The answers to all of your questions, of course, are that there was no difference in production time, quality, cost than if it were going to a "for profit".

But there are a couple of "special circumstances". 1) I approached them; not the other way around. The non-profit is the Yosemite Association and it has been a dream of mine to have my work carried in the park. Also, if they carry it, this could open other doors for me. So it is very important to me that I not ask too much and loose the contract 2) I value what they are doing, so, though I want to make as as much a profit as I can, I wouldn't feel terrible if I got a little short-changed in the deal.

Jon

Jon,

This is a really interesting discussion. I popped over to see your promo site.

Whilst I am in Australia, it seems to me that that you have a unique product that you decided to produce yourself. If you factor a dollar amount for the many hours you obviously have put into the project, the real cost would be over $25k? You took the risk and now it is getting people's attention. It was your idea, money, skills, time and entrepreneurship. I think you should get rewarded for that!

I think you should have taken more :-)

Lastly, I suggest you view the sales prediction very conservatively. They are often way out so I'd only get 500 units replicated to start with (assuming the costs are reasonable). Then ramp up production as real sales volume comes through.

Good Luck and Congratulations!

Dave.

Hi Dave:

I'm a little embarrassed that you looked at my site (though, of course that IS why I have it linked). My site hasn't been updated yet, so the DVD featured is the 2005 release. Also my site has been pretty far down on my list of priorities - revising the DVD has taken just about all of my available time for the past 10 months.

Yes, I've waffled in how much to ask. But I'd rather get the contract and wonder if I could have asked for more than not get it because of asking too much. Oh well, live and learn. Once I get in with the Yosemite Association I will approach other retailers and will ask for more, probably more like $9.95 per. Having the YA's backing should be a big plus.

But, yeah, you're right on the cost of production. I've thought about approaching other park's associations, showing them the Yosemite DVD and offering to do one of their park. I would ask for $20-50k. $20k they would have no further obligation to me but I would still "own" it; $50k and I would sign the rights over to them. I really doubt that any would have the resources for it, but I wouldn't want to do another for anything less. The project consumed all my time. Even when I wasn't sitting down working on it, it was on my mind. It was an incredible relief to have it done.

Laurence mentioned the possibility of "writing off" the low wholesale price on my taxes (since they are a non-profit)....that is definitely something to look into, and would effectively raise how much I am getting from each one.

Thanks again,

JOn

Laurence said: "Anything you give to a non-profit can be written off your taxes."
This is totally NOT CORRECT. You may only deduct the value the non-profit receives when they sell the donated items. You may not deduct the value of your time or services, and you may not deduct your "fair market value" - only the cash value the non-profit receives. See IRS Publication 526. (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p526/index.html)

OP - Don't fall for the all too often quoted, "poor us, we're a non-profit organization." Many of the largest corporations in the US are non-profits

> "Many of the largest corporations in the US are non-profits"

Very well said. The same here in the UK. What it means is that they don't make a profit. That does NOT stop them paying sizable, market sensitive/aware salaries; have development funding schemes; investments in bricks 'n mortar and all the other trappings and additionally that makes for a large concern operate - all they mustn't do is make a profit. What is "rolled-over" by the organisation must be used on schemes to further their aims and objectives, and here in the UK, that means those articles that that Charity has lodged with the Charities Commission. And mostly this works very well indeed.

Known as the Third Estate, the Charity Sector can become a burgeoning and valuable vote getter for any incumbent, majority-feeble, sitting government of the day. When times are politically tough, chairties can come into their own - IF they have the intelligence and foresight to do so.

The other thing that you should be aware of is that charities can accrue to themselves "just" retired previous high-flyers wanting to "put-back" something into society. And at the other end, those that are seeking to get experience of a sector that can look good on their own CV, which could include championing a video project that's output is, as it happens, a DVD!

And no, I am not trying to be sarcastic here - without charities much excellent work would never ever be picked-up - it is only that when dealing with charities you can have much more available to yourself and them than what was seen at first viewing, and was not obvious.

Charities can often be free thinkers and are willing to truly push the envelope. A trait that can be missing in lumbering profit making multi-nationals.

Just keep your eyes open and keep those brain cells polished! - There is much work to be done in that 3rd Estate!

Grazie