OT: How to Get a Cool 180 Degree Cam Shot?

Coursedesign wrote on 8/20/2006, 8:45 AM

Mentioning The Matrix makes people think of "bullet time" which was done with 180 cameras, have to assume you don't mean that.

Easiest is to rotate the hero/product (is there a difference? :O) 180 degrees in front of the greenscreen with the camera fixed.

If you really truly can't do that for some reason, then put your camera on sideways roller skate wheels, at the end of a string, always pointing towards the center while rollerskating 180 degrees around the hero/product.

Beyond that, a reasonable step might be renting curved tracks for day or a weekend.

bStro wrote on 8/20/2006, 8:48 AM

Satish Kumar has a tutorial on how to fake it. You could play around with that and see if it gives the look you want.

Rob

apit34356 wrote on 8/20/2006, 9:54 AM

Ken, if the floor space is tight, but you have some headroom, you can make a simple boom that hangs from the ceiling, rotates around the center, ( like a compass). The boom hangerpoint is the center of rotation. This can be done many ways, cheap to very expensive, but you need to consider safety when you put it together. Adding counterwieghts can help balance or if a pathway is clear enought, you can have a simple wheel(soft and touching the floor) and bar connected to the boom to hold the camera as you rotate. Vibration as one moves may require foam/rubber padding on the assembly or floor.

vicmilt wrote on 8/20/2006, 11:05 AM

Hey Ken -

Need more info - ie - what is the shot you've got in mind.

But in general, in a basement greenscreen situation I've got to second Coursedesign's suggestion - it's the way I'd go in 90% of the cases.

1 - build a turntable big enough to hold prop or talent.
2 - shoot shot while rotating turntable
3 - key in moving background to suit

Super easy and requires nothing more than a suitable turntable -
four skateboards under a piece of reinforced plywood (or any derivation of that concept that makes sense.

You can also rent heavy duty turntables from movie rental houses or (and I recently used one) - call catering houses. They use heavy duty turntables all the time for flower displays and ice sculptures.

Let us know what you end up with.

best,
v

apit34356 wrote on 8/20/2006, 1:19 PM

Ken, if you have the space, then Course and Vic's is the first and best choice(always for small products, not for cars, planes(for really big basements...)... or more that one person). But the really important issue why rotate the product vs not; is simply chromakeying. Its really tough to chromakey a moving greensceen if the screen alignment is not correct. But rotating talent on a surface can be tough! Even rotation speed, is one, most talent will move unexpectly if rotation is uneven or too sudden. Plus, remember lighting, you don't want any half-moon effects. Many of hollywood's rotating 180+ degree shots, where the camera moves around the talent (people,animals), actually will have a fixed curved greenscreen to the camera assembly that rotates around the talent also.

apit34356 wrote on 8/20/2006, 4:02 PM

Ken, before you start, I would seriously think about renting, borrowing from someone or better, buying "Hollywood CameraWork" dvds series. This can save a lot of time, money and reshooting. This series is truly the director to the cameraman's guide to planning a scene where camera movement will creates the desired impact! Since you have plans for infocommercials and more, you can not go wrong with this series.

There are many ways to do things, saving money and getting the best return on the investment requires some sweat and alot of homework. I know you do your homework! So good luck with the planning!

richard-courtney wrote on 8/20/2006, 4:04 PM

Getting the actor and the supered background to match is going to be the real issue.

What is the scene? Outdoors with sunlight and shadows? A launch bay in a star
battle scene with diffused lights?

Earl_J wrote on 8/20/2006, 7:03 PM

Hello Ken,
I saw a Mythbusters episode where they made a dolly to ram a heavybag against some plate glass... in any event, they built it with two lengths of pvc pipe spaced with 2X4s under the pvc for smooth surface on top. The built the dolly with roller skate trucks placed under piece of wood at 45 degree angles inward toward the pvc pipe... I bet if you use the polyurethane wheels, it'll ride nice and smooth. You can tie the ends of the pvc pipe together and pull the inner rails toward each other to make the arc you need. Put two of the tripod legs on rollers of their own and the third leg will have to be placed on a crossbar of some sort... *OR* put two tripod legs on one rail and the third on the other rail...
The diameter of the pvc pipe is determined by the length of the arc you want to build - smaller diameters will provide tighter arcs - larger diameter pvc pipe will not provide as much flexibility. The beauty of this system is once it is built, you can make it straight over rough terrain outdoors as well as use it for slowly panning in arcs to provide a panoramic shot of the background - someone standing in front of the Grand Canyon, for instance.
If you need longer lengths, build more than one and just butt them together, in this use, the pvc does not need to be bonded together to provide a smooth ride down the length of three or four individual lengths run together...
Haven't had the opportunity or requirement to build one just yet, but when the time comes, I think something like this would work just fine... I might build one for the next recital I shoot... that'll be a challenge - it's about 30 feet across the stage in a slow arc...

Please do let us know how you succeed with this project... it'll be fun to see as well... if you can provide us with a short clip of the result...

By the way, for the moving platform upon which you mount the camera, it appears one might get too much free movement in every direction. With the dolley method or the hanging from the ceiling method, you'll only get movement in the direction you desire and not toward and away from the talent -creating minor focusing issues.

Good luck...

Until that time... Earl J.

ken c wrote on 8/21/2006, 12:33 AM

Hi everyone - thanks so much for all the terrific ideas - you're all very innovative and experienced at this... all your ideas are much better than what I would've done on my own -- so I sincerely appreciate it.

I'll probably start by trying to use a rotating center dolly; thanks coursedesign and Vic for that; eg to film rotating talent, I could just get a barstool, right? and fixed camera... and right, for product some plywood w/skate wheels on the bottom, that's a great idea.

thx Earl, great tips re building a dolly system...

I also like the idea re a hanging camera on a rotating boom arm, that's innovative too... will do re posting latest updates... my stuff is still amateurish, so I appreciate all your great ideas for making things more professional...

btw my latest video, posted last night, is at www.daytradingu.com/tradingvideoblog.htm and also the ones at www.stocktradingsuccess.com

a neat effect would be a rotating push in... eg a spiral shot that starts wide and rotates 90-120 degrees in to closeup on talent face...

(right too re hollywoodcamerawork dvds, they're on my "to-get" list re blocking shots)..

ken

farss wrote on 8/21/2006, 12:55 AM

My idea.
Get one of those rotating gizmos they have on the tables in Chinese restaurants. Stand talent in the centre. Easy part.

You need to make it rotate smoothly so use a motot. A small rubber idler wheel in the chuck of a cordless drill should work or else a long strap around the outside of the revolving stage and then around the chuck of a drill on very low speed.

Bob.

apit34356 wrote on 8/21/2006, 1:55 AM

Tho, I like designing power circuits using DSP controllers, I would not recommend building a powered table by yourself for a commercial enterprise. Since you are using your home for your studio in the US, you need to consider your homeowner's insurance and business insurance policy. Should some unfortune electrical fire occur and cause damage, your insurer'(s) may claim that your creation created or help cause the damaged. Plus there are a lot of building/electrical codes when blending home/commerical use of personal property( varies by state and county) that can add to the headaches.

farss wrote on 8/21/2006, 3:04 AM

Ah, I really doubt there's much of a risk using a cordless drill!

Grazie wrote on 8/21/2006, 3:58 AM

Batteries going flat? Happens everytime I use one. Get half way into a brickwall? PHht . .splutter . .. chungk. Then I loose it!! That's the danger.

apit34356 wrote on 8/21/2006, 12:53 PM

Farss, the risk is the "next step" if the cordless does not work, plus simply put, I do not know of any homeowner's insurance in the US that covers injures or damages from a home built rotating structure that will rotate humans with out special waviers.

I like the idea about building one's own assembly, but Ken has a young family and is working out of his home. An accident, that could be serious in nature, while using the assembly could/would invalid his coverage, which probably have serious impact on the family. If he checks or get the proper courage, great, go for it. But if one is not an engineer or mech.incline, I think a slow approach is the best.

I'm not saying "don't be creative", just do the paperwork.

ken c wrote on 8/21/2006, 1:30 PM

I'll keep it simple to start with... eg "sit on a rotating barstool and spin".. weee...

Challenge will be coordinating greenscreen back to match/pan.. though that's easy enough in vegas with pan crop/zoom.. .should be fun, I'll try that for my next video blog video..

ken

johnmeyer wrote on 8/21/2006, 1:33 PM

Not exactly what you're looking for

Duals Reloaded Special effects from Denmark

but the camera moves in the opening sequence (after the titles) may be close enough to give you some ideas. Click on "Behind the Scenes" to see how it was done.

[Edit] Looks that "how to" link is down. Fortunately, I saved it. If you are interested, I can send you a private link to get my saved version.

ken c wrote on 8/21/2006, 2:06 PM

Thanks John... I think I can grab it from:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050319223027/http://www.lysator.liu.se/~zap/kidwars/intermezzo/intermezzo-effects.html

I remember watching that last year, it was some innovative filmmaking fx....

archive.org's great.. :P

ken

richard-courtney wrote on 8/21/2006, 3:40 PM

I think the idea of an overhead bar that has a green chromakey "card" at one end
and the camera at the other is still your best method.

Lighting for the card and talent are mounted on the overhead bar too.
The actor stands still at the pivot spot while the bar rotates above/around him.

EDIT: PATENT PENDING

farss wrote on 8/21/2006, 3:52 PM

In the end why not save a lot of time and effort and hire enough space and the gear to do it right.
Ken does this as a business so his time is money.
The Spider Dolly from Losmandy makes these kinds of shots a piece of cake plus there's the industry standard curved metal track dolly systems. This gear is pretty cheap to rent, little wear and tear and it doesn't devalue like cameras and VCRs.
I've spent a lot of time building grips, lights and electrics but I concentrate on what no one else does or else charge way, way too much for.

Bob.