OT: HV30 v. high end JVC GY-HD250U comparison

Patryk Rebisz wrote on 9/12/2009, 12:38 PM
I got my hands on a pro level 3 chip HDV camera JVC GY-HD250U and for fun (and a little for research) i decided to stack it against HV30.

http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/jvc250_hv30.jpg

Below you have a few JPEG stills (compressed at 10 quality, meaning there is a tiny amount of recompression for the web involved as 12 is the highest/max quality) that show how closely those 2 cameras match.

The pic were pulled from Vegas 8 from 30p footage put together at 720p30 timeline. When using 1920p timeline the JVC's footage looked more blurry then that from HV30, so i decided to use 720 timeline (JVC's native) as a compromise. I noticed that JVC has a significant amount of sharpening so i added Sharpen filter (medium) to the HV30 footage (which because of the down converting from 1440 to 1280 looked more blurry then JVC footage).

(Some of the mess in the pics was on purpose to add some various colors to the image and some, well because i'm a messy person.)

Overexposure on my face test:
http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/over.jpg

Motion blur test:
http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/shake.jpg

Mix of tungsten with daylight fluorescent test:
http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/blue_top.jpg
http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/blue.jpg

Sharpening very apparent here:
http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/back.jpg

Dim overheads on:
http://patrykrebisz.com/jvc_test/overheads.jpg

This is not a comprehensive shoot out between those 2 cameras if anything it's just to prove my theory that when it comes to HDV because so much of color information gets thrown out when compressing to MPEG2 then whether it's 1 or 3 chip camera doesn't really matter. Don't get me wrong JVC is a superb camera so this is not to diss JVC but rather to prove that you can have pro-level quality for $700 of HV20/30/40 so if you ever though about making movies... Well there is no excuses available anymore!

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 9/12/2009, 12:49 PM
Nice comparisons, but, uhmm, I don't see where you told us which is which . . . ?
Patryk Rebisz wrote on 9/12/2009, 12:55 PM
HV30 on the left JVC on the right.
musicvid10 wrote on 9/12/2009, 1:21 PM
That's what I had assumed, but my assumptions are notorious for being wrong as often as correct . . .
CorTed wrote on 9/12/2009, 4:51 PM
Patrick,
My HV20 shows a lot of "noise" on relative low light input, similar to what I would have expected to see on your shots, but I am not seeing this?
Is that because the compression is not showing this?

Ted
Patryk Rebisz wrote on 9/12/2009, 5:21 PM
Those are not low light shots as they a lit with a 250w light to the right and the exposure is locked, so you are looking at shots where the camera's gain didn't kick in.
Earl_J wrote on 9/13/2009, 9:11 AM
Hello Patryk,
nice to know someone with more knowledge than I has such a high opinion of the HV30... I just purchased one not long ago, and have enjoyed using it on the two opportunities I've had since the purchase. I was a bit disappointed that it didn't have the functions of the GL-2 ... while, in fact, the functions are there, I just didn't know how to find them. . . (the story of my life... lol)

Thanks for taking the time for the comparison... although now labeled, I was able to differentiate which camera was which without a problem... As Yogi Berra once said, "It's amazing what you can see just by observing..."

Thanks again... until that time... Earl J.
daryl wrote on 9/14/2009, 7:54 AM
I use a Canon XH-A1 as my primary camera, and an HV-20 as the second camera. I am completely at ease using the HV-20, the footage requires very little, if any, adjustment to match the A1. The A1 is very very versatile adjustment wise, but once it is set up and ready, I just set the HV on auto and run it, then on multi-cam editing in Vegas I rarely have to make any changes on the HV line.
To get really creative, yeah, the A1, but for a common two-camera event, the HV hangs right in there.
hazydave wrote on 9/14/2009, 9:18 AM
Yeah, that's been my experience, too, between pro cameras (well, low-end pro) and the better consumer cameras (I have an HV10, for example, which has the same sensor as used in the HV20 and HV30).

Back in the SD days, you had so little color information, that a Bayer pattern interpolation then taken into 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 color subsampling looking significantly worse than full RGB from a 3-chip camera. This was even starting to not be the case with better consumer cameras, largely since they started using much larger than necessary sensors, so the Bayer pattern interpolation could be within a single pixel, for the purposes of SD.

What certainly hasn't changed is the light question.. more pixels on a same-sized sensor means less light, all else being equal. There have been some improvements in light sensitivity (lower noise on CCDs, higher dynamic range, etc), but all tricks available to any sensor design of the same era. So you still find some 3-chip cameras that are using the arrangement to improve low-light, rather than color (which probably doesn't need improving).

At the very least, with 3 chips, you're getting 100% of the light entering the camera contributing to the image (minus a very small loss in the diachroic prism). With a single chip, you're filtering out 2/3 of the light per RAW pixel.

Some HD cameras offer three full-sized sensors, others offer half size with intereave, so they're doing some interpolation, too, but the pixels on each chip are better than twice the size than they'd be on full frame chips.

In short, 3-chip can still make a difference, but it's largely a low light thing. And that's also true of HD vs. SD... a VX-2100 is still going to deliver better low light performance than any 1/3" 3-chip HD camera... at least of those I've seen so far.
Patryk Rebisz wrote on 9/15/2009, 2:00 AM
hazydave, i would not go so far. The validity of the 3 chip v 1 chip info stands only when it comes to HDV not HD. The formats that don't throw away so much color information (DVCProHD for example) still shines as far as color vibrancy goes.