OT: LCD Monitors- What the Manufacturers Don't Say

theforce wrote on 3/20/2005, 1:04 AM
Here is some important info that I haven’t seen anyone bring up here about LCD monitors. There are at least 3 very different types of panels used in LCD monitors:

TN (Twisted Nematic): Best response time, poor color, poor contrast, poor viewing angles (least expensive)
MVA & PVA (Multidomain Vertical Alignment / Patterned Vertical Alignment): Poor response time, okay color, good contrast and, okay viewing angles
S-IPS (Super In-Plane Switching): Good response time, good color, less contrast, good viewing angles (most expensive)

The different characteristics of these types of panels determine the specs (more than the brand name or sometimes even the model number of the monitor). The basic differences have to do with the layout of the liquid crystals on the panel’s matrix. I picked this up from 3 different sources.

A Usenet posting
A website that explains the differences between the types of panels (last page)
A German Website (in German, but easy enough to use) where you can look up what kind of panel a monitor has Select the monitor(s) and press the "Vergleichen" button

I found this out after buying a 19” Viewsonic VX910 that supposedly had a 16ms response time, and the other specs were also good. I had my doubts about the response time based upon what looked like “ghosting” when I would quickly scroll through this forum. I then saw a post on CNET that said that the VX910s made before January were 25ms. The “newer” (same model #) one with the 16ms response versus 25ms must be better, right? WRONG, because the 25ms unit uses an MVA panel, and the 16ms unit uses a TN panel. TN panels are “faster” (and the way the response times are measured is open to interpretation), but they display fewer colors and have noticeably worse viewing angles (I wasn’t even so thrilled with the viewing angle of the MVA version that I had, which looked slightly different near the edges unless I tilted the screen or moved my head).

Because it was the 30th day, I returned the Viewsonic to Best Buy. The monitor was actually pretty nice, but I would not have bought it had I known upfront it was only 25ms. The BestBuy.com Website still says 16ms, although the Viewsonic site has been changed back to 25ms. I called Viewsonic, and after a couple of minutes, they determined there was some conflicting information, said they’d call me back, but didn’t. They actually told me that the VX910 would be 8ms in June (same “model”)! Anyway, I think that the response time is not that critical for video editing anyway (more for gaming, which I don’t do), so long as you’re at 25ms or below, and it depends on what type of panel. A 25ms S-IPS panel is supposedly as “fast” as a 12ms TN panel.

There aren’t many 19” S-IPS monitors for sale in the chain stores, and they are the most expensive ones. Most of the 19”s are MVAs, and the ones with the faster response times are the TNs. So I did some checking on that German site, and found that the LG Flatron L1930B has an S-IPS panel (evidently, LG is some kind of joint venture between Goldstar and Philips, and their panels are even in some of the higher end Viewsonics) . Surprisingly, my local Office Depot had some in stock, and after rebates, it was only $379, plus I think I got a $60 discount card. I’m very satisfied with it. There is no ghosting when I scroll the forum or watch video (although it’s “only” rated at 25ms), and the viewing angle is much better. The image looks more like a CRT image (more “natural”, not as bright/vivid, although I liked the bright/vivid look, and it is more adjustable than the Viewsonic was). I wish that the height was adjustable. The Viewsonic was higher, but the height wasn’t adjustable on it, either.

I’ll throw my 2 cents in on a few other points:


Response time: In general, an S-IPS panel with 25ms response time or less is probably the best choice for video editing.
Most new LCDs should be sufficient in the response time department. The disadvantages of the fastest (TN) panels outweigh that advantage, unless you spend most of your time playing very fast games. Don’t obsess over it (as I did) and make the wrong choice.

Brightness/Contrast: For the most part, every LCD now looks brighter and crisper than a CRT.

Viewing Angle: I originally didn’t think this was important because I thought you had to be sitting at an extreme angle to see a difference. Depending on the panel, it can make a big difference. Don’t go by the manufacturer’s specs on this, either. In the store, look at them from above, below, and sideways. Some panels look almost black when you tilt them up. S-IPS panels have the best viewing angles. Ironically, though, the blacks take on a purple tone when viewed from the sides on these (not noticeable from normal viewing angles, though), and these seem to have the blacks that aren’t the blackest. Not a real issue for me, though. Ever look at a CRT when it is “off”? It is actually olive green, not black.

Resolution: This is not a factor, because all 17” and 19” LCDs are native 1280x1024, and you can only go down from there, not up. When you do go down, you have to be blind not to see the vast loss of sharpness. At Best Buy, everything was set to 1024x768 to be at the lowest common denominator with the 15” LCDs (which can’t display 1280x1024), so you are not even seeing the 17”s and 19”s at native resolution. If you want 1600x1200, you need a 20”, which costs hundreds more. There are times when I wish I could do 1600x1200 on my 19”, but no big deal.

Dot Pitch: Also not a factor, since all 17”s are .264mm and the 19”s are .294mm. My 19” looks pretty darn sharp, though, so I don’t think the dot-pitch is as critical a measurement as it is with CRTs. On a 19”, the dots are supposedly bigger than on a 17”, so the slightly bigger distance between them probably doesn’t matter much.

Viewable Screen Size: When you buy a 17” LCD, you get 17”, unlike a CRT, where you lose an inch (a 17” CRT has a 16” Viewable Screen Size)

Dell is selling a 20” S-IPS panel with 16ms response time, which looks pretty sweet.

Comments

Quryous wrote on 3/20/2005, 9:43 AM
See the new Samsung (branded Dell) before your second 30 days are up.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1764466,00.asp

What does your German site say about it and the HP 2335?

The Dell is $1200 and the HP is $1350.
Coursedesign wrote on 3/20/2005, 11:15 AM
See Comparison.

(The above URL content is German for "Gesundheit!" :O)

I don't think S-IPS and PVA, etc. need any translation, but if you have any questions I read German fairly fluently.

B.J.
BillyBoy wrote on 3/20/2005, 11:40 AM
Read the fine print (disclaimers) in all ads. Most have a clause that says something along the lines that specifications subject to change without noitce. That allows them to clear out older merchandise and at the same time upgrade the specs. Years ago I ordered one of the orignal Maxtor external encloser firewire drives. The original design didn't have a power switch. When it died, they sent me a newer model that had a power switch.

Ghosting in LCD monitors should be a thing of the past. I've had the same ViewSonic (model VG175) for at least two, problaby more like three years and even back then there was no ghosting.
theforce wrote on 3/20/2005, 8:06 PM
oth the Dell and the HP look very good.

Here is a from that German site, side by side. The Dell has a PVA panel made by Samsung (Samsung makes all PVA panels). Looks like an excellent unit according to the specs. The weakest aspect of a PVA panel is usually response time, but the response time looks great for this one (16ms rise-fall/12ms grey-to-grey). As I mentioned above, I don't think response times under 25ms matter for video editing (although this CNET Review claims there was same streaking and ghosting during their DVD and gaming tests).

The HP uses an S-IPS panel (those used to be the best, but PVA may be catching up or exceeding them these days), but the brightness and contrast ratings are lower than Dell’s PVA panel. It looks like the Dell would probably be the better choice (same resolution, but larger by an inch, and even less expensive than the HP). It would be nice to test them both side by side, which may be nearly impossible to do. Here’s the CNET review of the HP L2335.

Although both seem like great monitors, I think an editor should consider a pair of 19” LCDs (or even 17”s), which, may even have some advantages, not to mention cost a lot less (although you also get the higher resolution of 1920x1200 with the 23/24” monitors than with the 17/19” ones that are at 1280x1024). According to my rough calculations, you’d get about 1/3 more real estate with the pair1 of 19”s and about the same overall real estate with the 17”s. Or you can go with a 19”now and add another 19” or 17” later, etc.