Victor Milt also has a VASST-produced DVD title - "Light It Right" - which gives a very broad range of lighting applications and how to get a whole lot out of a very simple setup (1soft box & 1 fresnel spot with & w/o a reflector for fill). Very "economical" in many ways. And he really covers evrything from portrait to corporate to product shots - and it can all be translated to narratives if that's your thing. Lots of good information in there.

Thanks DSE.

I have a similar still style as Victor. I do all HDR (medium format digital) imaging work that really requires almost no lighting other than to paint a bit here or there if there is a black hole in a corner or hard transition from hot points etc.

I have found no way to stack or do image averaging (HDR) on the video side so there is a bit more lighting involved. I will read through Victors site later this evening.

I do need at least one or two hot lights for video interviews and am open to suggestions.

Thanks again,
Duncan

Duncan,

I just ordered some lights from Tom at www.rostronics.com today. I think a couple of people here use them but I found much more info on them at the dvxuser site while researching them. Seem to be nice lights at a very reasonable price. I can tell you more when they arrive but from everything I have read they bring a lot to the table for the $$

If you decide to order, don't forget the dvxuser coupon - -

HTH

Keith

Appreciate the feedback Jessariah. I have worked with quite a few different lighting setups from HMI to ARRI etc., but just had no clue what was the differentiator between a $4K light and a $400 light. In the still photography world a lot of it is marketing hype and some convenience. The main differences in low price kits to medium priced kits are durability.

I know that when I worked for Disney and WB (90-92), HMI and MR were the defacto standards. In the previous two I can understand that they are just simply bullet proof but really offered no better quality light IMO than say a $400 ARRI Fresnel. It all depends on the type of light we are talking about but when comparing a Fresnel light to a Fresnel light, they are very similar. Some of the MR 1K soft lights are really un-matched by any other sub-$1K light.

Duncan

Keith - I am fairly new to this forum - what is the dvxuser coupon?

Thanks,
Duncan

Sorry about that...

Members of the dvxuser.com forum receive a discount on any purchase with Tom. You don't have to have a dvx cam to sign up...it is a general video info forum that leans dvx but there are Sony, Canon and JVC folks over there as well. Another good source of info (can never have too many).

Keith

EDIT: Welcome to the Forum by the way!

Thank you.

when comparing a Fresnel light to a Fresnel light, they are very similar.

The light from an ARRI fresnel looks quite a bit nicer than less expensive fresnels.

Put two side-by-side and you'll see it immediately.

If you want fresnels, eBay often has slightly better prices on used ARRIs.

Don't forget fluorescents: they use a lot less power and can offer a nice light with the right tubes. With a quick tube change, you can also switch between 3200K and daylight... (There are situations where I don't like the light they throw though!)

Which brand of FL? Kino Flo?

Duncan

KinoFlos are the workhorses of fluos, and their tubes certainly are good.

If you need portable fluos they are a good choice in spite of the high price.

For stationary use, there are better fluos for less money.

Philips makes some relatively inexpensive daylight tubes that are OK even for most pro use, OK in standard fixtures from Home Depot, etc. as long as you use electronic ballasts.

Duncan, you're all over the map here. First of all, there are three common types of lamp: Incandescent, Flourescent, and HMI arc lamp. Arri makes all three. So does Mole.

Looking at the BH photo site, Arri 1k tungsten fresnels are generally hovering around $500.00 but after you buy a stand and doors and 5 scrims and scrim bag it'll be 7-800 I think.

A $5000.00 1 KW fresnel...well, the wattage is foreign to me but for that price I'd think you're looking at an HMI. It's an arc light. Puts out daylight. More light/watt than incandescent but also sports some expensive and complicated electronics

So let's forget about the HMIs for the moment. What makes a good light? Let's start with that omni light and compare it to the tota. These are low end pro lights but they're very serviceable. The advantage of the tota is that it poops out light and it folds up small. 20 of them will fit in a milk crate.

The omni improves on this because it is focusable and has barn doors. You can shape the light a little and you can clip gel to the doors.

Moving on up to the Mole and Arri open face lights, there's a big improvement in construction. You can lock the yoke. The doors rotate easily. You can use wire scrims in them. It's easier to mount a chimera on one and they're less likely to sag under the weight. The Mole lights are tougher but the Arris don't rust.

Fresnels are another animal. They have a lens and the light output is smoother. They can also create harder, crisper shadows than the open faced light. Their output isn't as high as the open face lights but the quality is better. If you want hard light the fresnel is a better choice. The open faces are better choices for diffusion or for bouncing.

The lowels are perfectly serviceable and last many owners for years and years. Personally, I'd never buy them for myself but that's because I've worked as a grip and electrician for enough years to form an opinion. Other people are very happy with them and never know the difference.

Rob Mack

Lights arrived today....so far I'm happy with the purchase. When I have time to test them out fully, I'll post back.

Keith

Cheers!
What did you buy in the end?

Hi Duncan,

I am an Arri Fresnels fan myself, i like sturdy lights and high quality, traditionnal, theatre style lightning.

But i saw a very good demo of Rololight (http://www.rololight.com/softbox/en/view.asp) stuff lastly and i would say that having a kit would be a marvelous complement for shooting. They are daylight balanced, they are extremely light, flexible and portable and they don't cost to much... The company has a very ingenious design wich allows total control on combinations and orientation.

Can you tell us a bit more about what these lights look like? Their photos do not show very much.

I saw they're Canuckian (actually Quebecois, not sure they recognize the rest), with U.S. distribution by B&H (special order only though).

Québécois indeed. The system is very innovative imo. Each fluo strip (something like polyester or polycarbonate i think) is independant and can be matched in any numbers to form single accent units or curved combinaisons. There are also structural pieces to join everything in straight linear or square arrangements with standard fitting for stands.

The system come with 12 or 20 inches flicker free fluos.

You can also mix/match metal strips to change the reflective properties of combinaisons, wich is very convenient to overcome the 'unfocused" nature of fluos...

I guess these pics will give you a better idea than my poor english prose...

http://www.rololight.com/softbox/en/view_gallery.asp?cleGalleryType=3&cleGallerySubType=3&GalleryInterface=1

BTW, i am unrelated to the company...

This gallery really helped see what it is.

Pretty cool, very portable.

There's quite a few Chinese manufactured fluro lights available in the USA, looked at several at NAB. They're mostly either using the Osram Studioline tubes or clones of the same thing, much cheaper than Kinoflo and probably just as robust. We've recently acquired a Kinoflo 800 and both ballasts had faulty main wiring, simple enough to fix but if you do get a 2nd hand unit get it checked out for safety.
My only gripe with the Kinos is the tubes don't last like the Osrams and the tubes are expensive.

I'm tryin to get some info from satellight-x.com, looks like a great light and also don't forget K5600, their Joker lineup gets good press from grips.

In general for video we stick with daylight sources, just so much easier to deal with. Getting warm practicals in a shot balanced for daylight is visually acceptable, getting daylight into your tungsten balanced shot looks horrible.
Bob.

> The light from an ARRI fresnel looks quite a bit nicer
> than less expensive fresnels.

That's puppy poo. Although there are more advanced fresnel lens designs now and newer fixtures have less-worn reflectors, light quality will be nearly indistinguishable from one brand to the next.

The price difference mentioned in the original post was likely due to the expensive light being an HMI (a sophisticated daylight-balanced unit).

Indistinguishable?

I'm not talking about old vs. new.

IMHO, the difference is immediately visible, and others who have a lot of experience seem to agree, so it's not just me.

> The light from an ARRI fresnel looks quite a
> bit nicer than less expensive fresnels.

Please give me an example of a 'less expensive fresnel' that outputs light not as 'nice' as Arri fresnel light.

There's not much going on in a fresnel fixture, ya know. They're just a concave reflector, a bright lamp, and a fresnel lens. More expensive fixtures are likely more durable and they weigh less.

Less Filling....