<<Have you turned off the PS switch, counted to 10 then turned it back on?>>

I've been at this for several days, trying most combintions. I've had cards out, unplugged mains etc.

<<There is a bios reset jumper on the MB. Short it out with the computer off according to the MB manual then move it back. Try rebooting then.>>

Done that. Said so in the first post.

<<Which MB and processor do you have?>>

Abit BE6-II and Pentium 3, 800 mHz

Sounds like the MOBO to me---Pentium 3 800---let me guess--the computer is at least 3.5 years old and possibly over 4?

The thing is, I need an ISA slot, otherwise I'll have to buy a very expensive soundcard (and throw away a dear friend). If it is the MOBO, I can get a DFI model and continue using the processor and memory - and ISA soundcard. If it's the processor I'll have to chang all those things (unless I can find a used one - but for how long will that keep me going?).

So you see, I wan to know how i can be sure about what's wrong.

<<the computer is at least 3.5 years old and possibly over 4?>>

What of it?

Tor

I have laptop doing some thing.My son overheat the cpu.You my be better off to replace the motherboard and cpu.I paid $260 for 2.4G motherboard and cpu. Time to upgrade anyway.

Think of it this way TorS.

If you can not boot far enough to access the bios - then it can't be the processor. You haven't even reached the processor yet if you really can't even get into Bios. That leave something fried on the board.

Replace the board.

I have the exact same thing happen to me. Incidentally mine is also an Abit MB (VP6 dual PIII 1G, Win2K pro). It started booting unreliably about two weeks ago, sometime it will boot to the windows start screen and then hang there, and sometime it won't POST at all. I also changed the VGA card, and the power supply too, to no avail. The time it boots into windows successfully, the whole machine will lock-up unexpectedly, not even the restart button will bring the machine back.

I finally concluded that it is the MB that is gone. To make a long story short, I am now in the middle of building a PIV 2.8G machine with a Gigabyte 8I875 ultra MB.

Good luck with your machine!

I have a dual processor. I went months with problems, and two f-disks and complete reinstalls. Up till then I kept thinking it was software based or that I had jakced something. FInally got " under the hood " and one of my fans was barely alive. Got a new fan but it was just a wee bit to late for that. Popped out that processor and booted just fine on the other. Since I've replaced that one things have been smooth sailing *knock on wood*.

- Ray
ray@undergroundplanet.com
www.undergroundplanet.com

kameronj,
That was the answer I needed. Thanks.
Thanks to the rest of you, too.
Tor

Sorry Tor,
I should have seen that you reset the bios in the first post. Try pressing F7 while booting which probably won't work.

With that mainboard try the following:

1. Make sure that the underside of the mainboard isn't shorting out against the metal case anywhere. Use electrical tape to insulate the spots if in doubt.

2. Sometimes when you seat an AGP graphics card on that board and tighten down the holding bracket, the rear end comes up slightly out of the slot. But usually the MB will beep if that happens.

3. Ram pins can be restored by using a white eraser. They aren't actually gold plated. They are tin.

4. Swap out the PS to rule that out.

**5. Check the MB for bulged capacitors behind the CPU slot. The tops bulge when they go bad sometimes oozing as well. If you are handy, you can replace them. Caution, the board is multilayered. You will need a temperature controlled soldering iron to replace them, but it is not that hard to do. The caps are 6.3v, but you will have to replace them with 10v caps with a low ESR and a high temperature rating.
Nichicon "low ESR" caps are available from Mouser : http://mouser.com/
The part # is : 647-UPW1A152MPH6 about 0.71 each, no minimum order and no handling charges. The Nichicon is a slightly better product than the Panasonic.

As an alternative, a suitable Panasonic part is available from Digikey at www.digi-key.com
part # P10228-ND
and here's the Panasonic part # EEU-FC1A152
CAP 1500UF 10V ELECT FC RADIAL

Lelon Electronics, Luxon Electronics, and other aluminum capacitor manufacturers had been traced to a problem with an aqueous electrolyte (insulation) that had been used throughout the Taiwanese electrolytic capacitor industry. Your MB as well as several Soyo boards among others.

Here is a sample photo of bulged caps:

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com/Bad%20Caps%20Pic/BE6II%20bad%20caps1.jpg

If the caps are the problem, post back and I'll give you a detailed description of how to replace them.

6. If you are using a slocket, they sometimes go bad after awhile. You also may want to change it from Auto to 1.7v to see if it works compensate for another problem such as the PS.

John

Well, John. Thank you very much for that extensive answer. Some of the caps are clearly not flat at the top. They bulge even more than the ones in your jpg. I suppose that gives it away. It's late here now, but I'll try to find time during the weekend to take the MB out and get an overview of the damage.
There is a MB on the market with an ISA slot (yes there is, it is called DFI CA64-TC. With that I could use my processor and memory plus my beloved soundcard (which is a Turtle Beach Pinnacle Multisound - nothing to do with the infamous video editing package).
Of course, if I can replace the caps that might be even better - IF the ones that are going to burst have done it by now. I don't think i want to live with that axe over my head.
Tor

What I meant is that Mobo's do fail--since your computer is older, the likelihood of failure is probably greater.

Tor,
Check the MB for shorts against the case as I described while you are at it.
Meanwhile, count the electrolytic caps (there may be as many as 15). Order them and while you are waiting do the following:

1. Get a variable voltage soldering pencil with a tiny wedge tip, a roll of thin solder wick, thin copper wire (#28 or thinner), thin solder (40/60 solder .032" thick), and some solder flux for electronics work.

2. Heat one lead of the cap and "add" a tiny bit of solder to the joint. Heat again and when it melts tilt the cap so the wire comes PART WAY out of the hole. Repeat on the other side, then go from side to side until the leads wiggle out of the two holes completely. Do that for each cap. Watch you don't accidently burn something when you go in there with the soldering pencil.

3. Cut a small length of solder wick and apply flux to it. Lay the tip of the wick over the hole and apply heat to the center of it to draw out as much solder as you can. Don't overheat the board as it is multilayered (sandwich with printed circuit traces in the center layer as well as the bottom layer). If it gets too hot cool it off with a Q-tip dipped in alcohol. Use it anyway to cool off the solder hole when you remove the soldering pencil.

4. Cut a length of the copper wire and apply flux to it. Apply some to the hole as well. Heat the hole and stick the wire through the hole while still applying heat to the wire. Do it until the hole is clean. You can also use your mouth to send a blast of air through the hole if the wire trick won't work. Just watch where the solder ends up if you do.

5. When all the holes are clean insert the new cap into the two holes. Since they will be larger than the original ones bend the leads in a slight curve to lower the height and allow clearance. Use your judgement on this one.

6. Under the board, apply a small amount of flux to the hole and heat the joint so that the JOINT melts the solder (not the soldering pencil). To protect the caps from heat you can use a heat sink (smooth, not jagged tip mini aligator clips work well). If you work quickly and cool with the alcohol dipped Q-tip you don't need the heat sink.

7. The joint should have a small shiny dome when done. Cut the leads nearly flush with the dome with only a tiny bit sticking through the solder dome. Scrub around the soldered area with the alcohol dipped Q-tip to remove the flux.

Have fun,

John

Gee Tors,
I gave up on my Pinnacle 2 PCs ago! It still sits in a drawer in my lab. I WOULD feel bad, but in these days of 24/96 for a buck fifty (a MIA in my case), it's no use crying. I never used its MIDI abilities though - it was all about the A/D for me. I tried to put it in my backup box (Abit BM6/Celeron 850) but it won't fly for me in WinXP.

Do you REALLY need to keep this puppy around? I mean, I can see you going through contortions to get the ONE mobo that'll take it, and then a month later the card dies and you get a PCI model anyway! ;-)

The Abit BE6-II was an excellent motherboard. The DFI Tor mentioned is a joke compared to it. I have replaced the caps on two Soyo BX boards and they work like new. The i440 BX chipset is probably the best one Intel ever produced. The PIII clock for clock is a better CPU than the PIV especially the Slot I PIII. The ISA slot can save your butt if you have a spare ISA video card and the PCI or AGP circuits don't work.

Tor absolutely should repair his BE6-II since the bad cap manufacturers were an industry wide scandal two years ago and that is the only reason many perfectly good BX boards stopped working.

John

Anything can go wrong sometimes. For instance:

The new Asus P4C800E (if loaded with a new 3.2 GHz P4, 800MHz FSB) will hang at boot if you clear the CMOS. You have to put a lesser cpu in and boot, then you can replace the original. (The symptoms are exactly like Tor's here but the cause is totally different)

The solution is a BIOS update but if you can't even get into post without swapping the CPU then you're kind of up a creek. And how would anyone ever figure this out?

Anybody know if a motherboard can get into post without a CPU attached?

Anyway, if it's not one thing...

Rob Mack

The new Asus P4C800E (if loaded with a new 3.2 GHz P4, 800MHz FSB) will hang at boot if you clear the CMOS. You have to put a lesser cpu in and boot, then you can replace the original. (The symptoms are exactly like Tor's here but the cause is totally different)
The solution is a BIOS update but if you can't even get into post without swapping the CPU then you're kind of up a creek. And how would anyone ever figure this out?
Anybody know if a motherboard can get into post without a CPU attached?
======================================
The answer is NO, but you are absolutely NOT dealing with the same problem as Tor. There is a known issue with that board.

1. Remove the CPU and the BACK retainer for the P4 heatsink holder. Beneath it look for a blob of solder that has been slightly flattened by the bracket. Even if it isn't flattened if it is sticking up it is being pushed down when you insert the CPU/Fan assembly thereby shorting out the mainboard.
There may be more than one of these.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~nightops/eki/DSC00249.JPG

2. You can desolder it and resolder it. If there are two blobs do them both.
or:
3. Cut a channel with an Xacto knife between the solder points to allow the bracket do push down without pushing down on the blobs.
or:
4. File down the bracket so it has more clearance (remove it first)
or:
5. RMA it back to ASUS and let them fix it.

John

Tor,

Did either you or Rob Mack get a chance to try any of my suggestions?

Regards,
John

John,
No, I've not got around to it yet. I'm preparing the house and family for Christmas, driving kids to and fro season dos, and also wondering why Scandisk fails on my other PC. (Recomendations for a good disk utility program are welcome).
In between all this I tried to keep up with you lot yesterday after Church but then the forum was down.

Your suggestions are appreciated and duly noted. I'm not sure when I'll be able to get around to try them out.

Jester700
I know, things are different from when Pinnacle (the sound card) was the only serious card around. But I've been using the Kurtzweill sounds a lot and also a few custom sounds. I have .mid and .orc files laying around that would be fairly useless with another card. My Orchestrator Pro won't install on a PC without that card. So If I go for the PCI solution, I am set back for the MB, the processor and new memory, a new soundcard (the Delta will still work,. though) and new midi software. I know it may come to that, but please appreciate my reluctance.

I will report back.
Tor

John,

Sorry to chime in but it was an example on my mind. I don't have a problem with the P4C800, just describing a situation. The system is actually a sample belonging to a vendor I do some writing for. It's their problem, not mine.

FWIW, you're actually describing an entirely different problem with the P4C800. What I'm describing is purely a BIOS issue. Really.

Regardless, it's just an example of problems sometimes being hard or impossible to diagnose. In a way, Tor is kind of in luck because he has good reasons to upgrade to a Pentium 4 now. The question of which component to replace is almost moot.

Rob Mack

Sorry Rob,
Thought you had a familiar problem with that particular mainboard.
Personally I feel that Tor has an otherwise excellent motherboard except for the infamous inferior quality capacitors which plagued many motherboards from that time period. It's worth fixing IMO because it is more than adequate to run Vegas and because he will virtually have to replace everything if he "upgrades" to a P4. Quite frankly, the repair is cheap and not that difficult to do. I am sure that Tor is pretty handy. What has he got to lose? If he screws it up he gets rid of the board and "upgrades" to something else. If he does it correctly (likely) the board will be better than new and he can get rid of it when he is sick of it. At that time there will be something bigger and better as there always is. Most of the necessity for these upgrades is Microsoft's doing with it's newer, hungrier, and quirkier operating systems that they shove down our throats or its Media Player updates that quite frankly suck. If they strained system resources with a system which was actually designed to protect our privacy, I'd upgrade too for that reason alone.

John

John,
Being a fast learner, I can pick up the soldering iron in the right end.
But I'm still pondering over the main options I have - not entirely happy with either. Boiled down hard it may look like a question of money vs time. the expensive option is time-consuming too, but ought at least to be plain sailing.
The commercial side of my video activities may be on the increase next year. Not only will that enforce the "time is money" syndrome, it will also make a breakdown on the PC side even more disastrous than now.

Do you think I must replace all the capacitors on the board (23+), or just the ones with bulging tops (4-5)?
Tor

why dont you just get a second hand motherboard with isa slot off ebay ?
or if u like ill sell you my P3 mboard in feb when i upgrade. it has an isa slot on it. and supports upto 1ghz

Jc