OT: One Camera or Two? (need some serious advice)

Kevin Mc wrote on 3/11/2009, 1:32 AM
I am upgrading from my Panasonic PV-GS500 DV camcorder to some more professional equipment. I am considering purchasing two Panasonic AG-HMC70U's, to get a couple of low-end AVCHD cameras (mostly due to budget restrictions). I have no problems syncing and editing multi-camera clips ... so ...

My question is this ~ how beneficial is it to have two cameras for most shooting situations? I am getting serious about the videography side of my small media business. I am just beginning to shoot weddings, and have done many shoots of live bands, lectures, classrooms, and events. While I understand the obvious benefits of having two cameras, how often do some of you freelancers find that you require two cameras on a shoot?

I appreciate any advice offered.

Thanks!

Comments

ushere wrote on 3/11/2009, 2:19 AM
who's going to shoot with the second camera, or are you looking to lock it off on a, say, wide shot?

don't know much about wedding work, but as a pro shooting for national tv among others, one good camera is worth two crappy ones, and if you plan your shoot properly, one camera is usually enough!

btw. i don't know the panny you mention, but if you're looking to lift your game, as good a camera as you can afford is a good beginning (along with a good set of legs, mic, etc.,)

leslie
fordie wrote on 3/11/2009, 2:24 AM
Hi, sure you can get away with one camera for some things but in reality how can you film a stage show, play etc with only one camera.
Some weddings are filmed with one camera but again lots of pressure on you as you have no safety shot to cut to in edit and what if the camera breaks down, disaster!
I often film Ice skating with one camera because its not viable to use two, but I always have my spare next to me just in case.
So definately get two cameras.... or 3

leslie, I would argue that in the right hands a consumer camera like say the canon hv20/30 can produce superior footage to that of a high end cam in the wrong hands and obviously he hasnt the budget for higher cams otherwise he would have mentioned the likes of the sony EX1/ EX3.
just my added thoughts as i missed your post.
cheers john
farss wrote on 3/11/2009, 2:30 AM
"who's going to shoot with the second camera"

Ah yes, I once managed to have eleven cameras to cover an event and not one of them got the shots they were asked to get i.e. audience reaction.
For live events either a very clear plan of action or comms are vital.

Bob.
ushere wrote on 3/11/2009, 5:31 AM
leslie, I would argue that in the right hands a consumer camera like say the canon hv20/30 can produce superior footage to that of a high end cam in the wrong hands and obviously he hasnt the budget for higher cams otherwise he would have mentioned the likes of the sony EX1/ EX3.

and right you would be to argue john.... i've edit stuff shot on a old hi8 that was intercut with sp stuff, and though there was obviously a noticeable difference in 'picture' quality, the hi8 stood out for it's composition, framing, etc., than the mediocre offering from the sp cameraman.

you're perfectly right, in the right hands, etc.,

as i wrote i don't know the panny's, but if you're thinking of two, then whatever they cost added together would probably buy a better single camera, be it an fx7 or ex1.....

ah bob, if you want a job done properly, do it yourself - i'm sure you could have handled at least three of the cameras yourself ;-)
richard-courtney wrote on 3/11/2009, 6:39 AM
One good camera with your expertise can make you enough money to invest in
a second one later. If you have a multicam event, rent.

Weddings, do some planning and shoot B-roll ahead of time.
(ECU of rings on hands, groom's reaction to seeing bride in dress, etc)

So get the best you can (can't) afford now.
Kevin Mc wrote on 3/11/2009, 11:46 AM
These are great replies - and I thank you all. You are correct in assuming that the second camera would either be mounted for a wide shot, or I would bring along a second cameraman. You are also correct in that I have use other camera operators in the past and never got the shots "I WANTED". I think they get caught up in operating the camera and all sense of creativity goes out the window. It's kinda like how my grandma used to shoot family photos with her Brownie Box - inevitably all of our heads would be buried somewhere down at the bottom left of frame, but she did get some wonderful shots of the sky :^D.

RCourtney ~ your idea rings true with me in that I can get started with one, and let the business earn enough to finance the other. I understand what you mean by shooting many of the B-roll shots before hand (or even between other A-roll shots), what did you mean by ECU? Extreme Close Up?

While I would love to up my game and purchase a more expensive camera, I have noticed that most (of my) consumers really don't know the difference between SD, HD, AVCHD ...etc. They examine the content of the images, so I will most likely keep my budget low so I can afford the second camera sooner than later.

As a point of reference, here's the camera I am looking at buying - basically a mid line AVCHD consumer camera buried in a pro body - with a few pro-extras like XLRs and such:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/547680-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC70U_AG_HMC70U_Shoulder_Mounted_Camcorder.html

Any thoughts on this unit?

Thanks,
--Kevin
jrazz wrote on 3/11/2009, 12:59 PM
I differ some on the opinions given here.

I would recommend 2 or 3 cams (if you are going to do weddings) as with one, you can only focus on 1 person or 1 set of persons. To get good shots of a live event, namely a wedding, you will need at the minimum 2 cameras. Some may argue this, but 1 high end camera vs 2 lower end cameras in the wedding world will still only get you half th story. You either get the bride and her reactions/expressions or you get the groom and his. If the bride is walking down the isle, do you shoot his reaction to seeing her or do you shoot her? During the vows, you will get the back of the head of one and the face of the other. So, when the person saying the vows is facing away from the camera, it makes for a less than stellar shot.

At least with two cameras, you can capture more of the story than with one.

I would recommend buying 2 cameras and invest your profits into buying better cameras and legs as soon as you get the money to do so. That is what I did and I am all the better for it. 3-4 cam wedding shoots brought in more money and gave the couple a better final product than a 1 cam shoot could ever have given them.

j razz
Patryk Rebisz wrote on 3/11/2009, 4:34 PM
I've DP'ed many shows and a multi cam shoot is a norm. Recently i shot a feature-length film and the only reason we were able to pull it off because from my experience i knew we'll need 2 cameras.

Aje wrote on 3/12/2009, 5:01 AM
I use 2 mounted Canon HF100 in different angels as B cams and operate a Panasonic HMC 151 because I am alone.
Advantages:
Easy whitebalance B cams (same brand and model)

B cams shoot 1080x1920 gives me room for "zooming and reframing" in Vegas with good quality (end product mpeg dvd).

Long record time B cams - I can start them 10 minutes before and still have 115 min record time (16 GB SD cards).

With two audioflashrecorders that could run for hours and this shooting workflow I´m able to do concerts all alone with no stress.
My 2 cents
Aje
Dach wrote on 3/12/2009, 6:14 AM
I agree that 2 or more cameras are needed to do any live event such as a wedding. Its our practice that there is atleast one camera always locked down acting as our master shot. (wide). This becomes a life saver during editing.

If one is considered a professional in any industry, then clients can expect the person or business to have a contigency plan. In case a camera stops working, you always will have a back-up. The back-up does not have to be the super high end camera. We still keep a Canon GL1 around, its not used regularly, but you never know when it may be needed.

Chad
DSCalef wrote on 3/12/2009, 10:38 AM
For me, a 2nd and even 3rd camera is insurance and "cover" for problems in editing.

If you have a wide shot locked down, you main camera can be moved rapidly to frame a new shot with the locked down shot covering the move. Ever have a camera bumped by someone? Cover it with the wideshot.

Yes, I shot a lot of single camera footage. I depend on footage I shoot before and after as "B" roll to use in editing. But in live events, like a wedding or other event, you need the insurance. If I am mixing sound, I often duplicate my left-right channels to both cameras using either mixer outputs or mike splitters. On a tape change, you still have full audio in the other camera.

My best investment was a remote control for my Sony HVR-Z1u's with LANC control. I love my Cat5 single camera R-One remote control from Phil Jensen's GrizzlyPro.com. I have since upgraded to a full 3 camera remote control. All of our presidential candidate hour long interviews were done with the R-One. That was the camera on the candidate, while I manually operated the camera shooting the reporters.

David
NewsVideoTeam.com
Kevin Mc wrote on 3/12/2009, 12:32 PM
I believe the answer for me (for starters) will be to purchase one of the new cameras (mentioned above) and continue to use my Panasonic PV-GS500 (3CCD DV) camera on a tripod. I have done single camera shoots and there is just no insurance with one camera. While my new camera will be shooting in AVCHD, the final renders will all be mpg2 for the final DVD - so I can cut in shots from both cameras as needed. Both cameras are Panasonic and both have very similar settings. As the business grows I will purchase more high end cameras.

Question: are many clients requesting Blu-Ray for the final renders, or is the standard still pretty much standard DVD? So far my clients have either requested DVD - or in many cases the shoot was specifically for a streaming video for their web site.

--Kevin
Dach wrote on 3/13/2009, 6:20 AM
Its our experience that the majority of clients from all spectrums are still expecting a standard def DVD. I have begun raising the question regarding a Blu Ray HD version or another form of HD delivery for the purpose of upselling.

I believe there is a window of time where this is going to be applicable. Eventually HD will become the new norm and will no longer be called such.

Chad
UlfLaursen wrote on 3/13/2009, 9:15 AM
Reply by: Aje

Very interesting Aje. I am getting a HMC151 next week and will use it together with my HF100. How would you compare if you should whitebalance the pana together with the Canon?

Thanks.

/Ulf