OT: Opinions wanted on Camera/format

Jessariah67 wrote on 9/27/2005, 6:53 PM

I know this will be interesting, so to preamble...The "you should be talking about this with your DP" doesn't work because I don't have a DP as of yet. (Applications gladly accepted...)

We are in preproduction of our second feature. The budget is roughly $200K. We are shooting it digitally. So far, in talking to distributors, when you say "digital," they assume HD. If you are shooting SD, they balk and say your project will be junk.

Enter the Canon XL2...

I was originally planning to shoot with the XL2 in 24P. Now I'm debating going to HD. Other than the new format (which I am almost completely unfamiliar with), it brings on new camera issues. We obviously don't have the $$$ for "Pro" HD cameras. Glass is important to me, because I want a good depth of field. The Canon XL H1 and the JVC GY-HD100U have good glass, but neither are out now (we are tentatively shooting this winter). Obviously, any "new" camera has to have some run-throughs and tests to get comfortable with it. The other <$10K cams out there (that I know of) don't have the lenses I want

Basically, I'm just looking for opinions. I was completely hot to shoot a low budget indie on the XL2. Suddenly, ANYTHING SD seems to be the kiss of death. I can't believe the XL2's picture would be "unacceptable" for a low budget feature. Then again, if many won't even consider looking at it if it isn't HD...

You can see where I'm coming from...?

Comments

Serena wrote on 9/27/2005, 7:29 PM

This looks like a good question for a CML forum. You haven't said, but I presume you're intending distribution on 35mm 1.85AR since you say 24P. However your budget suggests otherwise. If it's to be film then talk to a lab and do a test transfer from the XL2 (if that's your preferred camera). Consider the Z1 and do a comparison test. Whatever distribution format you intend (16:9 DVD or film) show your 'proof of proposal' test as part of your pitch to distributors.These tests will be needed anyway before you shoot. Check out other people who've been through this (film labs are a good first point of discussion).

Cheno wrote on 9/27/2005, 7:29 PM

Lots of indie features shot in SD and upconverted to HD or printed to film. Not necessarily the kiss of death in any manner but we're getting to the point where the intermediary aquisition materials are better. I'm anxious to see the Canon H1 - never been a Canon fan but have seen some beautiful stuff shot it and transferred to film. You do have the options of mini-35 adaptors for most 3-chip DV cameras too which when used with good glass give stunning results. Marla ( http://www.marlathemovie.com/ ) was shot on the GL-2 with a homemade mini-35 and is probably one of the prettiest films I've seen with this format.

I'm still testing the HDV format and getting ready to shoot a commercial with it. I'm not sold completely but time may tell. Lots of tools out there to be creative with. Don't think you're in the dark age because you still may be shooting on DV.

cheno

Jessariah67 wrote on 9/27/2005, 7:36 PM

To elaborate, this will likely go direct to DVD. I plan to push the aesthetics to the point of being able to seek a threatrical deal, but we're trying to be realistic with the budget we have.

Cheno wrote on 9/27/2005, 8:04 PM

my suggestion would be to take a couple of hdv cameras out for a test drive - at 200k you may be able to afford renting a Varicam package or even a FD900. Look at Full Frontal, Open Water and 28 Days Later, all shot on SD, mini-DV and look like it, however you get some great performances. I'd rather shoot on a crap cam with a great DP and great talent. You'll get less complaints in the long run then if you shoot on the best HD camera and your talent stinks... hmmm think New SW Trilogy :)

Lots more DP's out there that may have more video / HD to film transfer experience and could chime in.

my $.02

GregFlowers wrote on 9/27/2005, 9:25 PM

I would definitely go with the JVC HD100u, Sony Z1, or even a Sony FX1 over the Canon at this point. If you knew it was going straight to dvd, I would say it wouldn't matter. But if you think it may get a theatrical release or hit the film festival circuit and perhaps be digitally projected, I'd go with an HDV cam. The JVC does 720/24p and allows for interchangeable lenses. It should be readily available soon and will likely give you the highest resolution "film-look" in its price range. The Z1 and FX1 are great cameras but require extra processing in post to achieve 24p, reducing their resolutions. I own a VX2000 and FX1 and can tell you the difference in resolutions between DV and HDV when blown up on a big screen is not just noticeable, it is quite dramatic. You will likely never even need a 35mm film transfer, as many major film festivals now accept a digital transfer. An HDV to HDCAM transfer should cost a tenth of an HDV to 35mm film transfer, and likely look superior when digitally projected.

db wrote on 9/30/2005, 3:09 PM

in general about distributors:

they have NO idea what will be a hit... they know what has been their misses ... they tend to go with what was a HIT last year = most wouldn't know a hot movie from a dog of a movie...

if they are telling you NO SD they are really saying we don't know how to make money on a low budget project that has no STAR power... most distributors are going to diss whatever you shoot on unless you have NAMES in your project .. if you tell them you're shooting 16mm they tell you you need to shoot 35mm ...

BOTTOM line for any distributor is CAN they make $$$$$$$$$$ from your project ?? if they think they can make $$$ they don't care what it was shot on they will get it to whatever format it needs to be on so they can make $$$ ... if they feel they caNOT make $$ from your project then they will tell you the problem is you shot on SD , you shot on 16mm , they don;t handle that type movie = EXCUSES ...

note that once you have a movie finished most distributors will look at it = they are ALWAYS looking for product and they would be a FOOLS not to take a free look ....

IMO do the BEST movie you can with the 200K you have & you MUST finish it - a unfinished movie ?? well there are thousands of em out there collecting dust ....

note that most all indigit movies are shot on hand size DV camera ..and most have made it to the BIG screen ...
http://www.indigent.net/