OT: Overheard between two PPro users

bStro wrote on 9/11/2006, 7:44 AM
I don't use Adobe Premiere Pro, but this thread appeared today on a video related community I frequent:

User 1: "Does Anyone Know of a plug-in or filter or technique for Adobe Premiere to gradually slow down a clip to a stop?"

User 2: [suggestion]

User 1: [reason suggestion didn't help]

User 2: [etc] "If only Premiere allowed keyframing for speed."

Surely, that user was mistaken, right? PPro can keyframe the speed of a clip, can't it? Or some kind of equivalent?

Rob

Comments

farss wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:07 AM
I don't know the explicit answer to this in PPro but if they can pull it off then it's worth a fortune. It's technically impossible!

Just thing about it, assuming a very gradual ramp down to zero you're attempting to simulate an infinite frame rate, been there, tried it in Vegas, didn't work, not Vegas's fault.

Bob.
grh wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:24 AM
Huh? Sure it does, it's easy, and I've done it with excellent results. Don't have the clip handy, but will post later. Unless, of course, (a) I don't understand the point, or (b) there are variances in the implementation of the effect.

[edit] Ah, I do have a copy up. Look at short tribute, at about 15 seconds, so see where I used a velocity envelope to slow down the playback to a freeze. I don't see anything in the final MPG that I find objectionable. (Note: the download is 10 MB.)
tkalvey wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:25 AM
"Just thing about it, assuming a very gradual ramp down to zero you're attempting to simulate an infinite frame rate, been there, tried it in Vegas, didn't work, not Vegas's fault."

Doesn't velocity envelopes accopmlish this?
vitalforce wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:29 AM
Unless I'm misunderstanding, that's exactly what I did with Vegas 6 at the end of my DV feature. Two people walking through a park, gradually slow down to a freeze frame. Simply use velocity envelope with points. In fact, I do the same thing at the beginning. A seeming freeze frame of a woman walking in snow begins to slowly move, then goes to normal speed.
bStro wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:30 AM
Bob, I think you're reading more into the request than there is. What they want is simply an equivalent to the velocity envelope.

Rob

(Edited to correct my obligatory mispelling of "equivalent.")
bStro wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:31 AM
Holy crap -- Three replies between the time I clicked Reply and the time I send a two-sentence post.

Rob
grh wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:33 AM
Yes, they do, but I believe farss is claiming that the velocity envelope we do have is inadequate. There's a difference of opinion about that, if we are reading correctly.
plasmavideo wrote on 9/11/2006, 8:35 AM
"Holy crap -- Three replies between the time I clicked Reply and the time I send a two-sentence post.

Rob"

Everyone's lurking around to be the first to find V7 posted . . . .
TorS wrote on 9/11/2006, 9:16 AM
I few years ago someone said that what Premiere users loved about Vegas was that they could preview the velocity changes, while in P they had to render them out first, to see what they looked like.
Tor
bStro wrote on 9/11/2006, 9:21 AM
I believe farss is claiming that the velocity envelope we do have is inadequate.

Possibly. And I trust farss' eye for quality more than I trust my own -- he's a pro, I'm not -- but this wasn't really a question of "can it be done perfectly, but rather just, "can it be done at all," which the post I read over yonder (on the other community) suggested that in Premiere Pro it cannot.

Perhaps I should point out that this was an amateur-amateur (yes, twice) video editing community I was reading. The content ain't going on TV or being show in a corporate meeting -- it's going on their personal website or YouTube. If the person in question ends up with a few seconds of stuttering due to poorly motion-blurred frames, they'll live. ;-)

Rob
Coursedesign wrote on 9/11/2006, 10:15 AM
What's asked for is "optical flow" to generate new intermediate frames out of thin air so to speak, and this feature can be found in After Effects 7 (as well as in plug-ins for older versions of AE), as well as Shake, etc.

If somebody has Adobe Production Studio, they can do these beautiful velocity changes in PPro (because the work is invisibly done in AE without rendering). This is shown on the Adobe tour that's been crisscrossing the world since February.
farss wrote on 9/11/2006, 4:01 PM
No matter what software tools you have it really begins with how the footage is shot.
Imagine a stunt guy flailing around as he falls from a building, camera tracking the guy as he falls. That last frozen frame of him in mid space must have no motion blur, that means very fast shutter speeds. The preceeding sequence of frames I doubt can be just created using software, again software interpolation does have its limits.

Not saying that the velocity envelope in Vegas doesn't give you a good stab at it and yes more sophisticated and expensive tools might do a better job but in the end you're up against physics.

Bob.