OT: Poor cable TV signal - need help

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 6:59 AM

We have been living with a poor cable TV signal for many years where I live and the cost per month keeps rising. Right now I pay $110 for BASIC CABLE and high speed internet service which wouldn't be so bad if the television signal weren't filled with almost unwatchable herringbone patterns and snow.

I wanted to know if any of you know of an electronic filtration device that will clear up the signal. I would like to buy one.

Some background:

1. Twice I have attempted to get Time Warner Cable to do something about it and failed both times.
Since the most common excuse following a service call to a cable company is: "The problem is inside your house" I put a table outside the house with a television on it and connected the cable coming directly from the pole straight into the television to show the tech that the problem was NOT inside the house.

2. Both times (a year apart) the tech went up some poles in the neighborhood and came back and said he couldn't find anything wrong. When I followed up a month later with a phone call to Time Warner and they looked up the service calls in their computer, in BOTH cases the techs had claimed that the problem was "inside the customer's home" despite the fact that they had never entered the home and saw for themselves that the poor picture on the TV that was on a table outside the home connected directly to the pole was coming off the line.

3. Everyone in the neighborhood has the same problem, even those with the digital cable packages. Two if us went to Time Warner to speak to upper management and presented the problem to them asking:

"If 100 neignbors sign a statement saying that the television image is really bad in our neighborhood will you consider replacing the 40 year old cables?".

His answer: "No, we would send out 100 separate service calls".

4. Some of the neignbors have gone with satellite television, but in that case they only have two choices for high speed internet:

A. Pay Time Warner for Hign Speed Internet only which is $70 a month because you aren't paying for cable TV as well.

B. Go with DSL from the phone company which requires that you also sign up for premium phone services or pay the same amount Time Warner charges - $70 a month. In fact when the phone company was the ONLY option around here (dial up) they wouldn't allow ANY other companies to have a local dial up number. Not even AOL. You had to use the phone cpmpany's dial up internet service and most of the time you couldn't connect.

C. Satellite TV internet service is terrible and very expensive so that's out.

So do any of you know of a electronic device that I could purchase that will clear up herringbone patterns, snow, etc in a cable television signal? I have tried a "signal booster", but that doesn't work at all.

Thanks,

John

Comments

Former user wrote on 2/19/2007, 7:05 AM

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 7:15 AM

Don't just accept the bad service.

Most Cable companies are regulated by local government agencies. Contact them and see if they can intervene. If it is the whole neighborhood, you should have some clout.

Dave T2
=============
Thanks Dave,

I suggested that to some people around here, but all of them want me to do all the work which is probably what I will have to do. Even when the two of us went to see the management at Time Warner we tried to get a mob to go and only one of them wanted to make the time to go down there with me. Most travel into New York City and back every day which means they leave at the crack of dawn and don't get home until well after dark. They bitch about the bad service and as I said some have gone with satellite but also pay Time Warner $70 to keep the high speed internet. They all said they would go along with anything ( I ) wanted to do.

I'll probably take on the crusade, but that will still take some time to resolve. In the mean time I would like a temporary fix if anyone knows of a device that will clear up the poor signal.

John

Former user wrote on 2/19/2007, 7:24 AM

Most devices that I know of will only clean up a signal when the artifacts are introduced locally (such as bad wiring in your house or electrical noise).

If it is coming into your house that way, there may not be much you can do. But I use an amplifier that I got at Radio Shack and it seems to help the quality of mine. It also allows me to adjust the signal when I add another TV so there is not as much voltage loss. I plug it into the cable line that comes in the house and then split it to 3 VCRs and two TVs.

Dave T2

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 7:31 AM

TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/19/2007, 7:59 AM

I find it really wierd that the internet works fine, but the analog AND digital cable both have snow.

Do ALL channels have snow? Only local? certain ones? Most cable/satellite companies still get their signals via analog satellite (since that's what it's broadcast on).

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 8:07 AM

find it really wierd that the internet works fine, but the analog AND digital cable both have snow.

Do ALL channels have snow? Only local? certain ones? Most cable/satellite companies still get their signals via analog satellite (since that's what it's broadcast on).
==============
Yes. All channels have snow, but the internet works very well.
Thanks,
John

blink3times wrote on 2/19/2007, 8:28 AM

Is there another option in your area... or have they got a Monopoly going?

My cable was none too great either. Spent years phoning the service line to no avail... it was a monopoly service.

But about 5 years ago, our phone company started offereing SD/HD tv along with DSL internet through the phone line.... took the deal and have enjoyed it ever since!!

F. YOU.........Shaw Cable!

Coursedesign wrote on 2/19/2007, 8:37 AM

If everybody in the 'hood is having the same problem, including those on digital cable, then the suspicion begins to point towards the central equipment where the cable company picks up their channels Usually that's in the same location where they have a billing office, and there are 10-foot dishes on the roof.

Since the internet access works fine over the same 40-year old cables, I wouldn't expect the cables to be the problem, although that certainly can't be ruled out.

It is difficult to filter broadband signals, because they cover such a huge frequency range.

You really should go on your own to your local municipal regulator to talk to them about this. They may be able to help you, but if not you have a good story to bring to the local newspaper about the 100 angry locals who not only couldn't get any help from Time Warner, but couldn't get any help from the munis either, even with all the millions they're collecting in franchise fees from the cable company...

In the meantime, can you get any crystal clear channels OTA (Over The Air) for free?

No FIOS from Verizon?

JJKizak wrote on 2/19/2007, 8:39 AM

The problem is the cable company signal is too low for your area. Similar problem with my buddy and he told them to fix it or terminate and he would go satellite. They installed an additional amplifier and all was well. Seems they can't let the signal get below -12 db or thereabouts and -16 is the limit. This was with one customer. They do not like to install amplifiers because a small amount of signal feeds back and messes up the system. You will be happier with satellite anyway.
JJK

Coursedesign wrote on 2/19/2007, 8:46 AM

The standard operating procedure with cable techs is when one customer calls complaining of snow, go out and crank up gain to max. and return to base.

Next call that comes in is from previous caller's neighbor, complaining of herringbone patterns, so he goes out and turns down the gain to min.

The next day the first caller calls again, complaining that his TV is snowy again, so another tech goes out and cranks up the gain to max. again.

And so on...

This related to me by a former senior cable tech at what is now Time Warner who left because he couldn't stand the incompetence.

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 9:18 AM

Thanks JJ,

I have been ready to go satellite for awhile. The problem is what to do about the internet. I have a choice between two monopolies that want to charge me $70 a month just for high speed internet, The cable company or the phone company. And their answer to threats to go satellite is: "Go ahead".

Bjorn,

Your friend confirms what everyone suspects about Time Warner and probably other monopolies. In our area standard procedure is to come into a person's home and charge them for "diagnosing" that they supposedly have a problem in their home AND "What about these two televisions?" "Are you paying extra every month for having them on our system"? Of course, if people are dumb enough to rewire their homes and it still doesn't work they charge them again to come back and tell them it is something else INSIDE their home.

I knew all that ahead of time. That is why I had the television set up in the yard connected straight to the pole. And a 36" TV to boot in case the guy claimed he couldn't see it. Despite all that two separate service techs over two years wrote it up as a problem "inside" my home despite never having set foot inside my home. It is obvious they are trained to put the customer off or intimidate them.

If any of you have an idea regarding internet service that I am not thinking of, I will get satellite TV tomorrow. I just hate paying either of the two bleeders $70 a month. And it isn't even the $70 as much as it is giving it to either of THEM.

Thanks,

John

kentwolf wrote on 2/19/2007, 9:33 AM

>>If any of you have an idea regarding internet service that I am not
>>thinking of, I will get satellite TV tomorrow...

Here near Chicago, but on the Indiana side of the border, I have had DirecTV for years, but we have the option to do Comcast cable internet only; without cable TV.

Here they charge about $45 a month for Comcast cable internet only.

On the Illinois side of the border, they charge much more for cable internet. No question, the cable companies seem to charge the max that the local market will support.

DirecTV is a very good value. I think I have had maybe 2 small price increases over the last almost 10 years or so and when this happened, they actually *added* available channels. I am very, very satisfied with DirecTV.

When I did have cable TV a long time ago, I think there were numerous (3 or 4?) price increases over the two year or so span that I had cable TV. When it rained, the cable would go out; then it would take a couple days to get it fixed.

DirecTV has been a very good value for us.

blink3times wrote on 2/19/2007, 10:17 AM

You need to write your Congressman!!

There have been incredible advancments in telecommunications and broadcasting in the recent past. Europe and Canada have enjoyed all of these advancments. Things are EXTREMELY competitive here which is great for the consumer. Cable companies in Canada lost their monopoly status long ago. The US on the other hand is FAR behind in these areas. Not because you don't have the technology.... but rather your telecom laws are pretty outdated and the various cable companies are allowed to hide behind them.

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 11:17 AM

Cable companies in Canada lost their monopoly status long ago. The US on the other hand is FAR behind in these areas. Not because you don't have the technology.... but rather your telecom laws are pretty outdated and the various cable companies are allowed to hide behind them.
==========
Right on every count except the part about the telecom laws being outdated. The opposite is true. They have been revised to allow and in fact encourage media consolidation which in turn has increased the number of communications monopolies. That is what I have been alluding to in the political threads regarding the news media and the way they pander to the dominant party here in the states. But that is for another thread. What I am looking for is a temporary solution to the herringbone filled and snowy television signal coming into the house OR a reasonable alternative for high speed internet NOT from the cable company monoply or the telephone company monopoly.

Thanks for all your input. I truly appreciate it.

Regards,

John

blink3times wrote on 2/19/2007, 11:45 AM

Well, I kind of read things a little differently, but no matter... the end result is the same. The US does tend to shoot itself in the foot with regards to this sort of thing... or would it be "cut the nose to spite the face??"

Either way... you are right... doesn't go too far in solving your snow problem! If your cable company AND your phone company are enjoying a monopoly then there really is no cheap solution I fear. You can always amplify your signal, but it'll only get so good if the original signal is nothing but crap. There is always SAT tv... but the price for the hi speed internet....

TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/19/2007, 12:02 PM

you could just say "Send your Cable TV to HELL!" & ditch it & just keep the internet. :)

rstein wrote on 2/19/2007, 12:10 PM

Craftech, I feel your pain. In fact, with any luck, my letter to the WSJ will be published in the next few days on this very topic (broadband communications regulation/consolidation). This is one of the areas of law I'm very interested in, for precisely the reasons expressed by consumers frustrated at faux competition, rising prices and crappy service.

FWIW, I've been fortunate for the past 20 years to be serviced by Cox, and I have to say they are the BEST cable company I've ever dealt with - both offerings and service have been excellent. Buy I've heard many horror stories about TWC from friends in neighboring cities here in SoCal.

I agree with Coursedesign that from your symptoms, it seems to be at the "head end" of the system where the OTA and satellite channels are being received. But before making that definitive diagnosis, let's go back to the digital cable subscribers. Are you sure they are seeing the same snow and herringbones on the higher digital channels (> 150)?

Obviously, as previously noted, if it were the cable infrastructure itself, you would see snow/herringbone artifacts, while the digital customers would see pixelation or entire loss of channels (since any analog events between head end and home would degrade only a digital stream of data for them), AND I'd expect severe degradation of Internet speed and latency due to packet loss and retries.

I would agree that you should approach the agency that regulates the cable service in your community - usually the city or county. However, the bastards at ATT and Verizon are working hard at the state level to pre-empt local regulatory authority. I guess 70 years of monopoly weren't enough - they want to have it again, ironically, this time, claiming it would foster competition. Bullpucky!

Bob.

craftech wrote on 2/19/2007, 12:47 PM

Craftech, I feel your pain. In fact, with any luck, my letter to the WSJ will be published in the next few days on this very topic (broadband communications regulation/consolidation). This is one of the areas of law I'm very interested in, for precisely the reasons expressed by consumers frustrated at faux competition, rising prices and crappy service.
===========
GREAT. Let us know if they publish it. Good for you.
==========

I agree with Coursedesign that from your symptoms, it seems to be at the "head end" of the system where the OTA and satellite channels are being received. But before making that definitive diagnosis, let's go back to the digital cable subscribers. Are you sure they are seeing the same snow and herringbones on the higher digital channels (> 150)?
=======
Good question. I'll have to ask one of them.
=======

I guess 70 years of monopoly weren't enough - they want to have it again, ironically, this time, claiming it would foster competition. Bullpucky!
=======
Within the next year you will see television and other advertisements claiming better future service by the communications industry by doing away with "net neutrality". The only prominent person in the news media to expose their real game (Corporate control of the last information leak - The Internet) was Bill Moyers in his investigative report entitled The Net at Risk which I posted here when it first aired on PBS. A lot of people seemed complacent when I posted it, but I for one would be at nearly a total loss to know what I know and document the same regarding filtered news media and their pandering to the dominant party and the administration in this country if it weren't for the internet.
And I am not talking about blogs although even the blogs would come at a high monetary cost if the same telecommunications corporations that feed lies to the public in mainstream news media to keep their political Trainers in power are given control of the internet as well.
Look for convincing pundits like Lou Dobbs and others to make a case for them and trash those who understand what is about to happen and then take a poll at the end of his show to see if he has sufficiently brainwashed his faithful audience.

If you haven't seen the PBS program you should.

Anyway. Again good for you R Stein. Keep us posted.

John

richard-courtney wrote on 2/19/2007, 2:24 PM

We insert commercials into privately owned cable and satellite headends.

Can you get the tech to run a scan with a signal meter?
Each splitted drop in your house needs to have a least 0 dBmV. We target +5 dBmV at the TV.
Amps boost noise so see if the cable company can replace your service tap to
get your signal up. If too high, say greater than +15 dBmV, need to "pad" or
increase tap value.

Have him check for tilt. (difference between lowest channel and highest
channel) They should be less than 6dB of each other.

Signal to noise needs to be at least 20dB we target 30 dB and each adjacent
channel should be within 2 dB off each other to be crystal clear.

Have the tech disconnect the cable feed at the surge protector and rescan
for ingress. Any found signals need to be greater than 10dB below the level
for any existing channel. This will help tell you if you need your inside cable
replaced. Use quad shield RG6 if you can if needed.

Have the tech replace the "tap". Make sure your drop is grounded.

fldave wrote on 2/19/2007, 5:19 PM

RCourtney,

Super detailed answers. But it seens to me that the cable company does not want to fix it.

I dropped all but the ultra cheap cable channels (no cable box), and kept internet. $50 per month. I got Dish Network, starts at ~$30 or so per month, I have the $90 package, so I get every movie channel. Love it. So much better quality than analog cable, which is what you have it sounds like. A few more $$ and you can get the HD channels, and dont forget the DVR-PVR to digitally record your shows or pause live TV.

If you really want to stick it to the cable company, go with the phone company DSL if you have it available. I am very impressed with my mothers DSL.

I keep the ultra cheap cable channels as a backup for the Dish during hurricanes and very severe storms. Cable works best during the intense cloud cover, but satellite comes back on much quicker after a hurricane!

DrLumen wrote on 2/19/2007, 9:43 PM

I think there have been a lot of good suggestions. My suggestion would be all of the above. Write to the local city/county officials, write your congressman, write the BBB, write the papers and any consumer advocacy groups that deal with cable issues.

Then, when they fix it (or if they don't fix it) tell Time-Warner to go pound sand, get satellite and DSL.

I had Dish Network before my last move and I'm now stuck with Time-Warner (the worst) because of geography, trees and strict dish install rules here. I'm using DSL ($19 for 1.5mbps) and will go to DirectTV the first chance I get. Satellite is great when compared to cable. Even during rain fade, which only lasts a few minutes here in Dallas, satellite is still better and more reliable than the extremely over-priced digital crap from T-W.

The other night I had digital artifacts and snow on a digital station - what a joke. I'm not exactly sure how that happened but I do know it sux.

Coursedesign wrote on 2/19/2007, 9:51 PM

RCourtney,

"Dee bees?"

We don't have no bees in our cables. If you have any bees in the cable, they're inside your house, an' I can't do nuthin' about that."

"And what's with the mV?" I don't see no MV around here, and I know what they look like, as my grandpa likes to ride them Italian motorbikes."

"You just take care now and let the snow keep you cool, OK?"

richard-courtney wrote on 2/20/2007, 6:45 AM

De Bees - that is why your sound has a buzz in it.......

Actually those funny numbers have been figured out a long time ago
because there can be problems with the cables leaking too much signal
especially with aircraft communication that the FCC could be involved.

There are very serious fines per day. I am surprised they don't want to resolve
the issue. Perhaps it is more than just your drop. It might be cascade
amplifier noise and they will not be able to resolve that until they get more
fiber in their diet. Fiber optic distribution costs alot more but offers greater
quality, distance, and can increase the number of channels they can offer.
I would try to get them to prove they don't have a problem.

I have been very happly with DSL in my area. The infrastructure is different
for distribution of internet routers and such than for cable. Cable may have
faster burst (speed) rates but when the teenagers get home from school
watch your speed drop on cable. DSL stays pretty close all day.

With H.264 being deployed faster by DirectTV to supprt HD locals I
would go with them. You decide on the quality.