I would strongly suspect that for the price of that H1 recorder, you could purchase a camera that gives better video AND audio. Digital 8 has been deprecated for going on 10 years.

Dan,

Thanks. That's way out of my price range. The H1 is set to sell for $99. Thanks for the input.

Dave T2

PerroneFord,

Yes, D8 has been dead for a while, but my camera works very well and I cannot justify purchasing a new camera yet. The H1 is set to sell for $99 so I don't think I could get a new camera for that.

Thanks for the input.

Dave T2

Is your point Dave to find out if the H1 will sync with your Digital 8 video or start to drift?

Xberk,

No, I am just curious if this device would work well for this audio situation. Is it good for interviews that need to sync to a camera? How close would it need to be to pick up good sound? Or is this totally the wrong device for a low budget interview setup?

Thanks,

Dave T2

Dave,
Without owning the H1, I would say "yes."

The H4n is essentially drift free with most camcorders. The H1 recording engine is the same, according to what I have read.

The real experts are over on the Pluraleyes forum, and it would be worth asking your question re the H1 over there.

It's incredibly clean, so even weak audio can be bumped up successfully. Sensitivity is better than some ENG solutions costing much more.

Everything else (including the shoe mount) on the H1 looks right for this type of work, which I do fairly often, and there is going to be one in my future.

Musicvid,

Thanks. I will be looking at this when it becomes available.

We are still discussing the project, so I don't know what they are expecting yet.

Dave T2

You might also consider trying an inexpensive lapel mic (clip-on mic, or lavalier mic).

On a tight budget, the $25-30 ATR-3350 can work wonders compared to an on-camera mic.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=atr3350&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

This is a mono mic with a mono plug. If only interviewing one person (i.e. only need to hear one person), you can plug this into the camera and you'll get audio in only one channel. In post you can tell Vegas to route the single channel audio input to both the left and right outputs.

If you need to hear two people, find a 'two mono 1/8" jacks to stereo 1/8" plug' Y-cable and you can record two mics simultaneously, one mic in each channel.

A Pro wouldn't be caught dead with this kind of setup, but at the low-budget amateur end (like me) it can produce satisfying results.

Tim L

Tim,

That is a good idea and would work except this camera has a major AGC circuit on the mic input and I have never found any way to turn it off. It pumps really bad.

I can record to my computer because I do have a cheap lapel mic that works okay, but I wanted something a little better for this project.

Thanks for your input though.

Dave T2

Instead of using a pair of lavs into a splitter .. into a stereo plug .. into your camera ...

Plug it into the H1 instead. You will get *much* better sound than just using the H1 alone, out of camera frame (which is too far from the speakers to get optimum sound).

I use this technique to record audio of panelists where there are 4 to 6 people sitting at a table in front of an audience. Instead of lavs I use two boundry mics spaced equidistant on the table .. into a splitter (combiner in this case) .. into a stereo plug that *could* go into my camera .. but goes instead into my Edirol R-09 digital recorder. Unfortunatly I could not find a commercial version of this cable. I had to cobble it together with various adaptors. Something that I would rather not do as it only gives extra places for things to go wrong someday.

I've borrowed a friend's Edirol R-09 when needing to get audio off the sound board, I sure wish I could justify the cost of buying one. Having also seen the Zoom H1 announcement, I'm keen on getting one. That's a great idea of plugging in the lav into the mic input.

Much of this just feels like over-thinking the whole process. You have your reason for not using the mic input, but it's a no-brainer for interview videos.

Dgates,

No I am not overthinking. The AGC on this camera is the worst I have ever seen. As soon as someone stops talking, the background noise increase to the point of being unusable. The on camera mic does not do this, but the mic input does. I have tried various mic types. The only way I can keep it from doing it is if I have a constant noise, such as a motor, running in the background. If it is just a voice it is bad.

Thanks,
Dave T2

There's another way to defeat the AGC.
Feed 20KHz into the input, you can filter it out in post. With 48KHz sampling it should cause no issues. The Beachtek DXA-5D uses this trick to defeat the AGC in the Canon 5D.

Or maybe your problem is really much simpler!
If your mic is too sensitive then you will get this problem. If that's the case you do not need to try another mic, you just need an attenuator and these cost like $5 to make.

Bob.

I like how you answer everyone's post in detail. You don't just post once and take off. I like that.

Bob is correct, if the mic signal is too "hot" and it forces the AGC circuit to turn the gain WAY down then in the absence of a signal, the gain will turn WAY up and the noise floor (or "room tone") will come right up with it. You need an attentuator or just buy the H1 as you originally planned and be done with it.

I use my H4n for double system sound all the time. I place the H4n audio on the timeline, go to its properties and under "Pitch Change" check the "Lock to Stretch" box and set it to "0.00019" which is the constant for the difference between the speed of my camera and my particular H4n, your constant is probably going to be different. Select the "Lock to Stretch" does affect the picth ever so slightly, but avoids any artifacts from the stretching algorithm. If there is music involved and the pitch has to be correct, I uncheck the box. Fortunately, the new "Elastique" stretch argorithm works great.

I used to be a big fan of the D8 tape format but not so much their cameras. For what it's worth, D8 uses exactly the same video encoding format as Mini-DV but records it on fatter tape using wider tracks at higher speeds. It is much less prone to dropout than DV. If you measure it as square millimeters of tape area recorded per second, the D8 was better than DV, DVCAM and DVCPRO.

DV = 120 mm2/sec
DVCAM = 180 mm2/sec
DVCPRO = 215 mm2/sec
D8 = 230 mm2/sec

John,

Thanks for your input. I have been real happy with the camera otherwise. It is one of the earlier models that offered manual focus and exposure (as well as auto modes). I have always had few problems with dropouts and it is very durable. It is a consumer camera, but top end, so to speak.

I will probably get the H1 when it is available. I think it will be useful for this and other applications down the road.

Thanks again.

Dave T2

I too will be buying a H1 when they're released however for your needs and I realise cost is a big factor for you, I'd think you'd find the H4n and the ability to use an external microphone / line input of much greater value.

If you're interested in a H4n that can only be used for external mic / line in recording drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do for you, no promises.

Bob.

you'd find the H4n and the ability to use an external microphone / line input of much greater value.

The H1 supports Mic/Line input.

I too will be buying a H1 when they're released however for your needs and I realise cost is a big factor for you, I'd think you'd find the H4n and the ability to use an external microphone / line input of much greater value.

The H1 *does* have a mic/line input .. just no XLR input.

(damn .. I've got to type faster ;-)

bob,

I will do some research on the H4n and let you know.

The H1 does appear to have a mic in, but it is a miniplug, not XLR.

Thanks,
Dave T2

We have used multiple Zoom H4's for a couple of years now. In a concert setting, we have at least one up close, and one to pick up the room. We also use iRiver IFP-790's (with lavalier mikes) to pick up speech and maybe some music (MP3 format). The Zoom H1 might become a replacement for the iRivers, which are no longer made.

With this setup, we have some sync'ing issues, but remember that sound travels at ~1100 ft/sec. If the sound is close to a mic, the delay is minimal. If the sound is elsewhere, there will be a delay. The solution is the same, regardless: chopping up sound tracks and resyncing it for each region.

This causes a little work in post production, but if the desired result is good sound, and the customer wants to pay for it, do it right. It is time well spent.