OT: Question for Panasonic TM700/900 owners

amendegw wrote on 7/8/2011, 4:55 PM

"1. Are you shooting on that format or are you using the 1080-60i (AVCHD) format instead?"

I normally shoot in 1080-60p - highest quality for my TM700. Also, I normally publish on the web (i.e. progressive), rather than DVD or BluRay.

"2. How are you transferring the video from the camera to the PC for editing in Vegas?"

I've set up the TM700 to record to its SDHC card, rather than the internal memory. That way I can just remove the SDHC card, insert it into the memory card slot on my computer and drag the clips to the appropriate folder on my computer.

...Jerry

Andy_L wrote on 7/8/2011, 4:58 PM

Always shoot 1080-60p. Converts flawlessly and effortlessly to 30p or 60i, so don't even think of it as a nonstandard format--think of it as future-proof.

Connect cam directly to computer via usb and access & copy files directly (Win7 machine) via MyComputer/etc/etc...

PeterDuke wrote on 7/8/2011, 5:26 PM

"I've set up the TM700 to record to its SDHC card, rather than the internal memory. That way I can just remove the SDHC card, insert it into the memory card slot on my computer and drag the clips to the appropriate folder on my computer."

You might find it an advantage to use the supplied or other transfer software to copy your files from your camera via USB. That way long clips which have been chopped up into no more than 2GB chunks because of limitations of the file system will be automatically glued back together again. Of course you can glue them yourself but it is extra work.

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:56 AM

Peter,

I wondered about that included software. It sounded like something NOT to install because it might be buggy. So you are saying that you installed it and used it's transfer tool to protect the data transfer? She has Windows XP Pro 32-bit.

John

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 6:06 AM

Which memory cards are you using with the camcorder?

Thanks,

John

amendegw wrote on 7/9/2011, 6:45 AM

PeterDuke said: "You might find it an advantage to use the supplied or other transfer software to copy your files from your camera via USB. That way long clips which have been chopped up into no more than 2GB chunks because of limitations of the file system will be automatically glued back together again. Of course you can glue them yourself but it is extra work

1) I have to admit I didn't load the Panasonic software on my computer. I've had a long history manufacturer supplied software being buggy & bloatware. This software may be different, but I'm still weary.
2) The TM700 limits clips to 4GB (nominally 22 minutes @ 1080-60p).
3) The Sony Vegas Device Explorer stiches together the 4GB clips nicely - directly from the SD Card.

craftech asked: "Which memory cards are you using with the camcorder?"

I happen to use a Centon 32GB Class 10 that I got at a good price from Woot! However, the manual states that Class 4 cards are sufficient. Obviously, a class 10 card will allow for quicker copies to your computer.

...Jerry

R0cky wrote on 7/9/2011, 7:04 AM

If you use Vegas' Device Explorer to copy the files from card to computer it will stitch the segmented files back together properly. No need to install the software that panasonic gives you. Always better to not install something you don't need.

I too always shoot 60p. No problems with deinterlacing for web/computer delivery and you can always render as interlaced if you want to make a bluray disk at 1080.

rocky

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 7:36 AM

The Sony Vegas Device Explorer stiches together the 4GB clips nicely - directly from the SD Card.
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If you use Vegas' Device Explorer to copy the files from card to computer it will stitch the segmented files back together properly.
=======================
In Vegas Pro 8 all I see is XDCAM Explorer.

Am I able to use that?
Will the Sony Clip Browser software recognize folders or files from a non-Sony camera? I think it only recognizes BPAV folders like from my EX1.
Is Device Explorer only an option in later versions?

Thanks,

John

amendegw wrote on 7/9/2011, 7:47 AM

"In Vegas Pro 8 all I see is XDCAM Explorer. Am I able to use that? {Device Explorer}"I dunno. Here's what my Vegas 10 looks like:

...Jerry

PeterDuke wrote on 7/9/2011, 8:09 AM

The menu amendeqw shows is the View menu.

I think Device Explorer was introduced in Version 9 of Vegas.

I have a Sony not a Panasonic camera, and use its transfer utility. I can't comment on the bugginess or otherwise of the Panny software.

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 8:48 AM

That option isn't there in Vegas Pro 8. So I tried XDCAM Explorer, but it is looking for an XDCAM device like my EX1 so it didn't work.

I recorded on the internal 16GB memory and connected the camera via USB to a laptop running XP Home. I dragged the folder to the laptop and found a bunch of .mts files in one of the folders. I was able to drag them all to a Vegas 8 timeline from the import media utility in Vegas and they seemed intact. The other folders created by the camera are Metadata and would be only recognized by the Panasonic software. I know that the Metadata is very important for my EX1 because the BPAV folders have to be intact to create valid MXF files. It appears though that Vegas 8 can edit the mts files as is (I think).

I Matched Media Properties and it recognized them as 1920 x 1080 - 60P Square Pixel files. I changed the Deinterlace to None.

Does that all sound feasible or should I install the Panasonic software?

Thanks,

John

EDIT: Peter, I thought you had one of these Panny cameras?

amendegw wrote on 7/9/2011, 8:55 AM

"Dies that all sound feasible or should I install the Panasonic software?"It's not a big deal to me to concatenate multiple clips of mts footage on the timeline, especially because we're only talking about 22 min + clips, but this pretty much your choice.

...Jerry

PS: Your project properties sound fine. As I recall, there wasn't a template for 1080-60p, so Matching Media is a good idea.

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 9:25 AM

Thanks Jerry.

John

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 12:15 PM

How are those shooting 1080-60p with these cameras rendering from these .mts files?

If I choose Sony AVC and a 1920 x 1080- 60i setting it crashes Vegas 8 every time no matter what the settings

If I choose Mpeg 2 at 1920 x 1080 -60i, it wants to render forever.

There is no 30p option.

So if you want to make a Blu-ray disc from these files, how are you going about it?

What are you rendering to?

Thanks,

John

amendegw wrote on 7/9/2011, 12:39 PM

"How are those shooting 1080-60p with these cameras rendering from these .mts files?"Since most of my stuff is for the web, I render to a DNxHD intermediate and then use Handbrake for the final h.264 media file for display. btw, our resident DNxHD->Handbrake expert, musicvid says it's better to reduce the framerate in Vegas rather than Handbrake - I just haven't changed my workflow yet.

"If I choose Sony AVC and a 1920 x 1080- 60i setting it crashes Vegas 8 every time no matter what the settings"

I had no problems in Vegas 10.0e. However, I understand the Sony encoder is a substantially different animal in 10.0e than Vegas 8.

"So if you want to make a Blu-ray disc from these files, how are you going about it? "

If the Sony encoder is giving you problems, did you try the MainConcept encoder?

...Jerry

Edit: Replaced the 60i render settings image with a 60p image

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 2:04 PM

Edit: Replaced the 60i render settings image with a 60p image
==============
That's the thing. I don't see any way to change the render to 60p from Vegas. I don't even see a template for 30p for Blu-ray from Vegas. It seems that it must be only interlaced. That's why I asked the original question about shooting in such a non-standard format. I always shoot interlaced with my EX1and rarely render for the web so progressive footage is all very new to me. Before I can show my daughter how to do this, I need to get a grip on it for myself first.

I have seen the DnxHD /handbrake workflow and have followed the threads. They are great for web video. But what's the best thing to do with 1080-60p footage from this camera to get to BR DVD and SD DVD?

As far as I know Blu-ray doesn't support 1080/60p only 720/60p. Correct me if I am wrong.

John

EDIT: I used the Panasonic software to import the clips. They import as .m2ts instead of .mts (from dragging and dropping). With .m2ts on the timeline it renders to mpeg-2 BR (60i) settings much better.

Lets see how the ridiculously fussy DVDA 5 handles it next.

amendegw wrote on 7/9/2011, 3:25 PM

Okay, I don't do a whole lot of BluRay renders, but here's what I came up with. Others with more expertise than I can chime in here.

I rendered the 1080-60p source to the MainConcept 1920x1080 60i template. Rendered the audio to .ac3. Plopped the video & audio into DVDA & burned a BluRay Disc. Looks great to me.

Here's an iso if you're interested. parrots.zip

...Jerry

LReavis wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:07 PM

"As far as I know Blu-ray doesn't support 1080/60p only 720/60p. Correct me if I am wrong."

Right, AFAIK . . . for now - progressive is on the horizon, and it's my understanding that Panasonic now has or soon will have a player that plays progressive BDs @ full 1920x1080; and most modern players will tolerate 30p, according to what I've read.

As I recall, the few times I've rendered and burned BD, I simply rendered for interlaced, full 1920x1080 and all seemed to look OK.

Clips on TL: If any are longer than 22 min., don't just drag onto the TL. If you do so, there may lose a couple of seconds between clip segments. There is a free utility that joins the clips without the gap (can't remember the name, for I have Vegas 9 & 10 and don't have to just drag clips onto the TL from my TM700). It may be that the free software you have can do this too (I didn't install the TM700 software). Otherwise, search this forum for software that joins MP4 clips.

Crashes: Vegas 8 is my favorite flavor of Vegas for editing. However, it's the pits for rendering. Make life easy for it by immediately rendering each clip to DNxHD or Cineform or even .MXF or other intra-frame-compression codec before putting the resulting render on the TL. Then you'll probably be able to render the entire TL without a crash. If rendering stalls or Vegas crashes, read the threads on this forum for fixes - often discussed at length a couple of years ago.

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:12 PM

Thanks for doing that Jerry. The clips I tried worked as well. Using the Panny software to convert to m2ts seems to work the best. Did you start with m2ts or mts?

Thanks again,

John

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:14 PM

Clips on TL: If any are longer than 22 min., don't just drag onto the TL. If you do so, there may lose a couple of seconds between clip segments. There is a free utility that joins the clips without the gap (can't remember the name, for I have Vegas 9 & 10 and don't have to just drag clips onto the TL from my TM700). It may be that the free software you have can do this too (I didn't install the TM700 software). Otherwise, search this forum for software that joins MP4 clips.
===============
Is that with mts or m2ts clips?
===============
Crashes: Vegas 8 is my favorite flavor of Vegas for editing. However, it's the pits for rendering.
==============
It seems a problem with imx 50 and avc only. But I usually frameserve to Procoder for myself.

John

amendegw wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:20 PM

"Did you start with m2ts or m2t?"Neither, I started with mts (was that a typo?).

...Jerry

craftech wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:22 PM

"Did you start with m2ts or m2t?"Neither, I started with mts (was that a typo?).

...Jerry
===================
Typo. I was in the process of correcting it when you caught it.

mts.

PeterDuke wrote on 7/9/2011, 4:35 PM

"They import as .m2ts instead of .mts"

Yes, .mts files are just .m2ts files mutilated to fit into the 8.3 file name convention and 2 or 4GB limit of the file system used in cameras and flash cards.

LReavis wrote on 7/9/2011, 5:43 PM

"Crashes: Vegas 8 is my favorite flavor of Vegas for editing. However, it's the pits for rendering.
==============
It seems a problem with imx 50 and avc only. But I usually frameserve to Procoder for myself."

Not necessarily. I've been rendering all clips to Cineform before putting on the TL for years, and I had horrible problems getting my FX-laden, 1.5-hour projects to render from Vegas 8. That was true even when I rendered to Cineform (the most stable option available, according to my experiments; see my old posts).

The only true rendering solution came when V9-64-bit Vegas arrived. Then all my problems vanished. And - yes - even my old single-core P4 Intel Pentium on an Intel MB crashed - like several other computers that I tested.