So it sounds like a no brainer - anything else I should be aware of? I was thinking edit sessions will be longer due to having to render the proxies each way - correct?

Will using the Huffyuv codec be any problem with regards to image quality? I'm just not able right now to add cineform to my system yet. I'm coming from having shot SD and all the things I need to get up to speed on with HDV seems a little overwhelming.

Added expense a con? The price sure seems reasonable in relation to buying a new laptop.. ;-)

Thanks Spot!

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

I wouldn't.
I'd recommend:
>Capture M2T's.
>Render segments you plan on editing, or render entire tape-length to DV (GearShift automates this)
>Edit with GearShift proxies.
>After rendering, shift gears to the M2T as your source, render to either BD, WMV-HD, SD, or whatever your master will require.

Thanks Spot for the advice!

What happens with render times? Is capture time any longer as compared to Standard def? How much more HD space is taken by working with the proxies??? Does 32bit float mode work with this as well?

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

Capture for both DV and HDV is real-time. You use a different capture utility to grab HDV (m2t) files; many of us much prefer to use a free utility called HDVSplit rather than the one included with Vegas.

m2t files actually take up slightly LESS space than their DV counterparts. I figure about 13GB/hr for DV and about 12GB/hr for m2t.

Can't answer the 32-bit question, though my gut feel is to stick with standard 8-bit unless you're doing something that demands 32-bit. I'm not sure what that "something" is at this point.

I use a the Pegasys MJPEG codec for my proxies. The MJPEG codec is versatile in that it lets you choose whatever dimensions and quality you want, and it seems to be extremely CPU efficient. It also can use the same colorspace as the HDV footage so color correction is more accurate between the proxies and original footage. 640x360 medium quality makes for tiny proxy files that play back without dropping frames even with color correction and transitions. The proxies work well with slower laptop drives as well.

Render times are extremely reasonable, until you bring 32bit into the discussion. then you're looking at almost quadruple time to render for zero gain. Save the desire for 32bit mode (if you want it at all) for when you've swapped out the proxies and are final-checking the master and find you'd like more depth, are seeing banding, or have heavy composites that the DV proxy doesn't display quite as cleanly, IMO.

Ok - So I'll leave 32bit float mode alone unless I have heavy CC to do.

What is the preferred proxy file format to work with while using Gearshift? As I stated, Cineform isn't an option right now, so what other alternatives are as good or close to that?

I've downloaded HDVSplit and the latest stable ffdshow utility - I have specified in my Vegas Pro preferences to use HDVSplit as my capture utility, but VP8 keeps going to it's own capture utility when I go to capture (Just testing currently the functionality) - If I go back into my preferences, it is unchecked and grayed out - Why isn't VP8 recognizing HDVSplit as an alternative capture utility???

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

I just use regular old DV as the proxy. I have worked with Mjpeg, but didn't understand why the Preview window showed files in that format blurrier than DV, so back to DV.

In a pinch you can render to MPEG2 directly from the DV proxy, but you'll lose some color sharpness. I notice the loss especially with reds--I had a clip showing a red tablecloth, and the MPEG2 derived from DV was just horrible in red horizontal resolution.

Don't know why V8 would not give you the option to choose HDVSplit as the capture utility.

MJPEG is blurry if you set the project to HDV dimensions, but clears up when you set the project to the same dimensions as the proxies.

Thanks to the HDV portal on the VASST website, I found the raw HDV clips of surfing to begin my testing of Gearshift.

I renamed the files with an m2t extension to see how it works.

I am testing this first on my dual core desktop first out of convenience.

The first thing I tried was adding the m2t clips directly on the timeline - Vegas plays the timeline without any issues.

Then I have run gearshift to create the proxy files - So when various changes are made to the proxy and applied different times to the full rez file, is there any loss of image quality? I've noticed that there are two sets of avi files - one quite small and the other is substantially bigger - is this a result of creating the full rez YUV AVI file?

Also, in what capacity does HDVSplit come into play here? Do I use this as the capture utility and then use GearShift to create the proxy files?

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

HDVSplit is entirely independent of Vegas. I use it to import all my m2t video from the camera into my PC. I have HDVSplit set up so that it brings in the clips independently, and also gives them a name based on their time and date codes. You can, by the way, use HDVSplit to do a "realtime" (tapeless) recording into a PC or laptop, thus bypassing the 60 or 80 minute limitations of miniDV HDV tape.

Okay, once the clips are on a PC drive, it's time to make proxies. To do so, call up GearShift. You're going to use the "Add" button to tell GS which m2t clips you want to proxify. Note on the right side of GS you can make different kinds of proxy media and/or different kinds of HD media. I select "NTSC DV widescreen" as the proxy type, and "None" as the HD type (this is probably why you are getting two avi files).

Note that all that GS does is the equivalent of bringing each m2t clip to the Vegas timeline and then rendering out a different version of it, just as if you were to do so manually. In order to speed up the proxifying process I therefore turn off "Waveforms and frames" in the View menu in order to spare Vegas having to render the visual waveform files at that time. After doing that, I say "Ok" and GS will sit there making proxies. The proxies will be placed in the same location as the m2t originals.

When GS is done, I can call up the GS window any time in the future and just click on the "Shift Gears" button to move between m2t and DV proxy. Any work done with the DV proxy will be identically done to the m2t clips when rendering to output.

"...select "NTSC DV widescreen" as the proxy type, and "None" as the HD type"

I did this exactly and Gearshift gives the following error message:

"HD Media cannot be (none) for timeline source"

I have to select an HD Media type before I can create the proxy files.

What am I missing?

"Edit - Now when trying to run Gearshift, it fails starting with the following error message: Error HRESULT E_FAIL has been returned from a call to a COM component" - grr...... >:-/

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

For whatever reason, replacing the m2t files and saving as a new veg it now works.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

> "HD Media cannot be (none) for timeline source"

What this message means is that if you place your media on the timeline and then call GearShift to make proxies, it must make a HD files that matches the size of the timeline events. You should only be doing this if you want to trim your media BEFORE making proxies. Otherwise there is no reason to place any media on the timeline before using GearShift to make proxies.

> I have to select an HD Media type before I can create the proxy files.

Only if you place media on the timeline. this is because you may have cut the media several times and so now GearShift cannot swap the M2T file for the Proxy anymore because they are no longer 1-to-1 in size. It therefore has to make new HD files that match the size of the timeline events.

> What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that GearShift can be used in two different ways. Most people leave their timeline blank and load the M2T files from the filesystem. This will allow GearShift to make 1-for-1 copies of the M2T files as DV proxies (which is what I think you wanted to do). In this scenario you do not have to make any HD media.

~jr