OT Rant: Hire a Pro for the Sound Board!

musicvid10 wrote on 5/8/2006, 9:49 PM
What does this topic have to do with Vegas or NLE?
Because what comes off the sound board is what ends up in your fancy cam, whether by direct or ambient, or any combination of the two.

Just a bit of background: Last May ('05), I took a brand new director to see the venue in advance of our July ('05) production, at another company's show at the same facility, in order to acquaint him with the sets, tech, and production capabilities that could be expected. My parting comments to him were, "Well, that's an example of how not to design sound." I didn't even know the sound guy's name at the time, and wouldn't have recognized it if I had heard it.

I discovered, much to my dismay, that the same person who was at the board had been asked to "run sound" at another production this April and May ('06), a major show at another facility, where I was hired only to conduct the orchestra, not produce. However, I took comfort in the fact that a professional sound designer was contracted to set up the mikes and board, and the board op had been asked to follow his instructions.

Not only did the sound contractor and I agree on every major point of the design (I've been doing this for only thirty years in rooms up to 5X the size of that auditorium), the contractor delivered his "keep the gains low on the wireless" speech TWICE to the know-it-all amateur board op.

The result? Well, this "experienced" board op not only completely disregarded the advice from the paid engineer, but the minute his back was turned, killed the stage mics (three choir mics and two PCCs), cranked the mid and bass on the eight wireless to levels which had previously been determined would cause feedback, thus eliminating any possibility of headroom when the house was full (hello?), and then cranked the gains to the point of howling and distortion, thus making the principal's songs and speeches unintelligible. In order to "fix" the problems, he brought in his own low-end compressor, and applied a 6:1 compression (holy cow!), because the lead's "peaks were too high."

Just an example of what someone with a little bit of knowledge, experience, and absolutely no competence can do to ruin a production without any regard for conventional wisdom. I told him not to "reinvent the wheel." The result was howling, feedback, distortion, and zero intelligibiltiy from the principals mikes into the THIRD weekend of the show (If I had been producing as I have usually done, this idiot would have been fired at final dress).

The moral? Instead of trying to save a buck by not hiring a pro to run the board, you have RUINED the experience of an otherwise fine production for your audience, video producer, and their customers. Whether you take the audio feed from the board, hang mikes in the room, or both, the result is the same -- crap. If you think weddings are an expensive mistake because "the bride's father knows someone who has a mixer," try staging a $30,000 production with a sound board op who is a friend of an acquaintance of the producer and who will work for free.

End of rant. All responses graciouslly entertained.

Comments

Serena wrote on 5/8/2006, 10:33 PM
Sadly free labour is seldom free, unless perhaps when they're family. People are altogether too gentle in giving instructions and following up with strangers when they're not paying.
apit34356 wrote on 5/8/2006, 11:07 PM
musicvid, if you really have an amateur at the board, then be a little aggressive and get some color elect. tape. Besides duct taping the guy to the chair, put colored tape or dyes on the board where the settings should be kept and red line the safe maxs. Get the engineer's advice on paper, highlight critical warnings and number the comments with reference numbers on the panels. I would laminate all notes, so they can not be destroyed easily. Of course, locking the guy in the restroom or the trunk of your car during the show would be doing a community service.
vicmilt wrote on 5/9/2006, 3:25 AM
you have my deepest condolances -
waddya gonna do?

At one point in my career I had a major repeat client - lotsa work - they loved me.

I was doing a Dristan commercial for them, and they sent along a very young production assistant to observe me.
Now one of the tricks I did (in those days of film to tape xfers) was to "juice up" the chroma on the end product shot to make the Dristan box colors really "pop". He asked, I explained.

But the next time I went up to this particular agency to pitch, I was told never to come back. The president of the agency "hated your work" and talked incessantly about the awful "Clowny" shot that I had done. I had no idea what they were talking about until I saw the last finished commercial I had done for them.

It seems this bright little "expert" had taken my spot back to the timer and retimed every shot with the product in it, overcranking the saturation. The classic shot where the beautiful girl holds up the box was so over-chroma-ed that she looked like a painted clown - hence "Clowny". Her cheecks and lipstick were so bright a red, they almost glowed. A commercial that must have cost between $65k - $80,000 never made it to the air, and I never worked for that agency again. Why, oh why, didn't they call me, instead of simply blaming me?

whaddya gonna do?

sometimes in a group creative effort - a world that we live in - you're going to get shot - and you're going to bleed - you have my sympathies.

v
apit34356 wrote on 5/9/2006, 5:19 AM
Vic, which New Jersey landfill is this production assistant in? Of course, Florida's nature wildlife is really helpful in that department. Too many production assistants can be toxic to the wildlife, this probably explains the gators deaths in northern Florida. At first, I thought it was all those Al Gore's lawyers affecting the nature's balance, I overlooked the food source being too toxic!
vicmilt wrote on 5/9/2006, 6:00 AM
We've actually got a couple 'o gators that we keep at the bottom of the pool for "special guests"
:>))

v
Laurence wrote on 5/9/2006, 9:01 AM
I worked as a sound board op for about ten years at Disney World in Florida. One show I worked had just hired a new show director. He was observing our show and the sound was being run by the "top sound guy" in our department. Boy did it sound bad. The show director had a bit of a meeting with the guy after the show asking why it sounded so bad. The board op had a huge list of equipment that needed to be replaced with much higher end stuff in order for the show to sound acceptable. Meanwhile, I did sound on the next show. The show director couldn't believe the difference. He came up to me and asked why it sounded so much better, then told me I was going to be the one to train everyone on board after that. He made such a fuss over what I had done (which only sounded spectacular compared to the job our head audio guy did). Anyway, a day later all this was forgotten. We got the new equipment and the mixes sounded about the same as they did on the old stuff.

By the way, what did I do to sound so spectacular? Stuff like flatten out the strange eqs, back off on the compressors, only run the mics hot where people were actually talking... that sort of basic stuff. Audio is one of those fields where you mess things up if you do too much. It is also an area that gets totally lost in any sort of corporate shuffle.
John_Cline wrote on 5/9/2006, 9:43 AM
It's all about the ears. We are born with the ability to hear, but listening is something that is learned and it's a really abstract thing to do. Most languages are set up to easily describe visual stuff, but there are very few words to describe aural things. When a producer says, "make that text a little darker blue" we know exactly what they mean. When a guitar player says to the recording engineer, "I want my guitar to have more crunch", that's subject to interpretation and experience.

I've heard some amazing stuff done with some very basic equipment and I've heard some positively dreadful stuff done with a truckload of high-buck gear. The same applies to film and video. It all boils down to the "nut behind the wheel."

John
Laurence wrote on 5/9/2006, 11:22 AM
One of the things that happens in a corporate beuracracy is that it rarely recognizes talent. People tend to be judged on their abilty to "kiss up kick down" as well as raw sales and profit numbers. Abstract things such as "quality of product" tend to get lost in this kind of structure.
farss wrote on 5/9/2006, 12:34 PM
Had the same thing happen to me, not sound but lighting wise.
Despite the passage of several years I'm still so hostile if I say more I'll probably get myself banned from here and in court.
Bob.
musicvid10 wrote on 5/9/2006, 6:09 PM
** Audio is one of those fields where you mess things up if you do too much. **

My way of putting it to him was "less is more." But he never got it. By the second weekend the female lead's mic was sounding pretty good, after he turned down his handy-dandy compressor at my "suggestion." By the third weekend, she again sounded like she was inside a 300 gallon barrel, and he managed to "lose" the male lead entirely for the last half of the first act (he had reassigned some faders . . .)

And yet I kept our techie on lights because I didn't think he had enough experience to run sound. As I found out at the cast party where he brought all his own gear, our techie would have done a far better job on sound during the run than the guy we ended up with.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/9/2006, 8:30 PM
man, i really feel for ya. Don't know why people insist on making things more complex then they need to be. At a concert I did lighting for (a small punk concert so it was just making lights blink at good times & such) the sound was... not good. Nobody could hear the vocals. Besides the fact that the bands turned their instrument volume WAY up the sound guy turned the mids on the vocal mixer down & the highs/lows up. :? Not sure why, but he insisted it sounded better. An audience member helped him get it right, then when the good samartian left it went right back to where he had it, even though the bands and the guy incharge liked it better the other way.

I'm not sure if he does audio anymore there. I do sometimes when I run the blinky lights but normally it's fine... and durring the sound check the bands reply on how they want it. Heck, it's their concert.