BB,
one thing most don't grasp is that uStuff is a company in name only. The guys who write the apps inhabit a different planet to the ones who write the OS. Even Bill has fired a broadside at them over the amount of code they duplicate.

If you think that's wierd, Sony ships VAIO laptops with Premiere.

Bob.

I wish Sony would be smart enough to port Vegas to Linux or even better to BeOS.

The sad fact is Microsoft holds the average computer user hostage to their bug riddled Windows.

Just for fun, lets start a informal poll.

Question:

If another operating system ran your current Windows based applications would you dump Windows?

It isn't that hundreds of millions of computer users willing want to use Micro-crap software, its you're almost forced to in that all the major software developers develop for it, so we hold our nose and go along.

The worst thing about Microsoft is their arrogant attitude with things like product activation that they freely admit doesn't stop a single hacker from stealing their crappy and bug filled software. Then of course all the sheep follow along... including Sony with their version of product activation that does nothing but piss-off legimate end users.

The point isn't that Linux or other platforms are bug free, for sure they're not. If hundreds of millions started using Linux, then no doubt all kinds of problems not known now would surface. Again, its the 800 pound gorilla named Microsoft and the end user be damned attitude.

The sad thing is that if there were competition for Windows then Microsoft would get their act together. This is the American way (or was)

And when you come to vote don't forget Microsoft avaoided the anti-trust suites by contributions to Bush.

MS is scared to death of the gradual encroachment of Linux. Don't remember where I read it, but Ballmer said in a speech or internal memo that the top three threats to MS were Linux, Linux, and Linux. They've recently offered a "crippled" version of XP to foreign governments that are seriously considering pulling the plug on MS and going with Linux.

The latest to fall was the City of Munich, which a few weeks ago declined the bait and decided to switch over to Linux. Many, many other foreign users will switch just because they don't want to be in the clutches of a monopolistic American company. I don't see how MS can stop it.

You DON'T have to upgrade to SP2. If your system is running well, don't "fix" it.

My "beef" is many people with install Service Pack 2. Those that do will see certain web sites one way, others that don't upgrade will see them a different way. Its browsers wars all over again.

I'm not talking just a minor cosmetic difference. In the case of Flash, Service pack two apparently breaks any full screen page. Such reckless conduct from Microsoft while typical is UNFORGIVABLE.

If I get a chance later today or maybe next week I 'll post my new URL and people can see what I mean. My new site is by no means finished but I can put up enough for you to get an idea where I'm going.

What bugs me is for many years through JavaScript you could easily open a new window and decide what features and what size any newly created window would be. I elected to go borderless. It offers a neat, crip clean look. So if you don't have Service Pack Two installed, that's exactly what you get. A site that fills your monitor edge to edge. No annoying title bars, no clutter, no browser anything. Just CONTENT.

Now with Service Pack two ugly bars at both the top and bottom are added automaticaly and even if you test for the user's width the idiots at Microsoft now insist that their crummy browser has borders, extra wide, totally screwing up the look and stealing about 12% of the screen width.

The biggest annoyance of all is Microsoft claims they did this for "security" reasons, yet with service pack two all the annoying spy software cookies STILL get through, like Avenue "A", which I know since I have anit spyware installed which actually works, Microsoft's crap as usual doesn't work. So what you get is broken web pages and STILL no real protection. If Microsoft was any kind of company besides a software company they would have been laughed out of business long ago.

This is wierd, I was at a uStuff product discussion a few years ago and this exact 'feature' was flagged as a security hole!
So again it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
For those that don't grasp the problem. letting a web site create a bordless, full screen page make it very easy for those with malicious intent to create the illusion that you're not even in a web site. The other 'feature' flagged as fraght with risk was transparent web pages. These things can sit there and you cannot see them. It sound like a neat idea, having a page fade out, until you realise the other uses it could be put to.
No I'm not defending uStuff, just trying to point out that software on any platform, written by anyone is incredibly complex, it's bad enough just trying to get it to do what you want it to do, then thinking of all the things it might do that you don't want it to do is where the real nightmare begins.

I'd also add that uStuffs product support and forums leave everyone elses for dead. As an Access developer on two occassions when I've had a problem someone at Redmond wrote the code for me. I don't pay for this service, just comes with the product for free. If there are known bugs in their code, mostly they're in their knowledge base.
Where is that level of support and honesty about Vegas?

Bob.

Agreed. The bad rep out there is actually pretty undeserved for a lot of stuff.

Farss, "Where is that level of support and honesty about Vegas?" Sony spends more per product sold on support than does MS. MS has about everyone paying them for their products and have very few who actually ask for help directly. Compare IBM software, AIX systems, 24/7 no system software failures for a couple of years of continuous operation.

Farss, IBM and Sun's support put MS to shame, especially IBM. All the big Databases companies also are really good. Ask any EDS, Ford, GM, Martin-l, Boeing, NASA,NSA employees about support for advance apps, you not hear MS given any positive reviews.

Farss, your point about screen control is right on, there are too many users that don't understand their computers. And outside apps should not control an user's computer.

"If another operating system ran your current Windows based applications would you dump Windows?"

Yes.

Best/Tommy

Once that "other OS" became as popular as MS claiming 95% of the market share it would be the target of all the hackers and experience all the 3rd party compatibility issues MS faces today.

Hackers, virus/Trojan writers aren't going to spend time invading OS's that don't provide gratification. If it claims a significant market share it will be vulnerable, they will hack it.

Mac, Linux etc. aren't worth hacking, they occupy less than 5%. If you don't think it can be hacked think again.

MS has much more to deal with than say GM or Ford, the internal combustion engine hasn't changed significantly in over 100 years, they and all automotive companies can be accused of stagnating. I find it hard to believe they can't produce an effective alternative to fossil fuel driven vehicles in all this time.

MS and other IT companies are moving forward leaps and bounds dealing with both hardware and software. To maintain and advance at these speeds in all facets must be a nightmare.

I'm not unhappy with spending right at $100 for an OS the provides me with what I can accomplish especially when I look back as a musician 20 years and remember what it took financially and in man hours to accomplish in seconds now at immeasurable increase in quality. So it takes some research, maintenance and common sense as does my vehicle.

MJ

Would I switch, youbetcha! I used to be a big MS proponent, but they've been too cocky and GREEDY coming out with crap OSs and getting so many people to PAY for the stuff. And their apps, most of them, will automaically throw in a buch of data you don't want and didn't ask for, I think MS's idea is that "you did this, so you MUST want to do...THIS", well, MS, no, I didn't!
For example, if you know HTML, try converting a simple Word document to HTML, then compare it to what was actually needed, geeeeeeeeeeez, AWFUL!!!!
OK, that's my rant for the day, glad I got it over with early.
Cheers.

To all of you that "hate" Microsoft, you are (and always have been) perfectly free to go buy a Mac and get Bill Gates out of your lives once and for all.

Personally, I have not had any problems with either Win2k or WinXP.

John

John, I have no idea why you're such a cheerleader for Biily Gates, other than you and him shared a moment or two in some garage decades ago.

The guy is arrogant as hell, dumps untested, buggy software on a unsuspecting public and Microsoft is reponsible for I'm guessing at least a million man hours a year for all the needless, stupid, clumsy, klutzy, bug riddled junk Microsoft calls applications, especially Windows.

For example in the few days I had SP2 installed Windows has caused 7 "recovered from a serious error' crashes. To show how truly dumb Windows is it when you send a "error report" it comes back blaming a driver and application I don't even have on my system. This is classic Microsoft. Very much like George Bush. NEVER take responsibility, point the finger elsewhere.

The FACT is Windows is, always was, and remains buggy as hell. It stumbles along. Its prone to crash because it can't handle drivers from third parties other OS's like Linux have no problem with. Windows biggest enemy is Windows itself. It still chokes on its own applets like Window Explorer and its media player can't even play some file types including Microsoft authored ones. How pathetic is that?

Another thing, since installing SP2 in starts off every fresh boot with a moronic warning nagging (and incorrectly) that my Virus profile is out of date.

This message should read WARNING the biggest security threat to your PC is Windows itself. If you don't understand why that's true, I suggest to do some serious study and learn why instead of blindly defending Gates and Micro-crap.

Billy,

Look, I just don't hate Microsoft and you can't make me hate them. I turn my computers on, they work fine and I get profitable work done each and every day. Exactly what more could I ask for?

Given the trillions of permutations of different motherboards, video cards, other peripherals and software installed on millions of computer, I think Windows does a fine job.

I understand the tremendous contribution that they have made to getting real computer power to the masses and I don't begrudge them their success. Software sure as heck wouldn't be as inexpensive as it is if the software publishers didn't have such a large market made possible by the standardization on the Windows platform.

ALL software has bugs, even our beloved Vegas, and something as complex as an operating system is bound to have a few. None of Windows "bugs" has ever prevented me from getting my work done.

As far as PC security is concerned, I run Zone Alarm Pro and a good virus program. Nothing has happened so far. And, as was pointed out earlier, if Linux was the dominant operating system, you'd see all the kiddie hackers writing viruses to take it down. Also, I'm sure there are security holes in the Mac OS, but the reason that you don't see more viruses aimed at the Mac is that it only comprises 4% of the market, where's the sport in that?

John

John,

The things you said are so painfully obvious to me that it assaults my senses when people so passionately argue to the contrary.

It justs seems to me that some people enjoy hate... and they kind of scare me.

Matt Iserman

Good grief, didn't you guys read the original on this, essentially "if you had an alternative that would do your work, would you switch", I DO have a Mac, and I DO have a Linux machine, but most apps are written for Windows PC, so I'm stuck with Windows for the vast majority of my work. Do I have a lot of problems that stop my productivity, of course not, do I think it's right that MS is not considering it's users needs, only getting into their wallets, NO. My personal preference for an OS, with NO reservations, Linux! How many years can Windows go without a reboot, wanted or not? I'm into my second year with Linux with NO crashes, NO boots, quick response.

My main beef with Windows is with each "fix" things don't really improve they remain borke and often you are worse off then before you install the patch. It varies, for me SP2 was a ridicilous 98 MB download. It fixed NONE of the problem I had had with Windows before installing instead it added five new problems (so far) I didn't have before. For a company the size of Microsoft to get away with that kind of crap is indefensible.

The often heard excuse that there is a huge install base and zillions of possible combinations is just a lame excuse. Windows is BROKE. Windows was broke when I first started using it (actually playing with it) which is way before most of you. Version two. There never was a official version one.

The real problem is Windows has never really been fixed. Its been endlessly patched which is the real reason it never gets truly fixed. Windows is like some crash dummy with about 1,000 bandAids on it. No wonder it can crash for 50,000 different reasons. Its also the same reason it is so susceptible to malicious attack. What Windows really reminds me of is that giant ball of rubberbands that's 10 feet across or whatever you may have seen on shows like Ripley's Believe it or not.

One of the problems of the Microsoft programmers is they do not understand the human genome for operating their sof5tware. For instance:
Ever since day one if you double clicked an icon then double clicked it again real fast it would open up the same application twice and it would not be noticed. All of their operating systems do this and they just don't get it. They do not allow for anything to happen except what they analytically allow in the programming. What happens to the OS when my hand slips and hits 14 keys on the keyboard at the same time? All hell breaks loose. Just one instance of that's our problem.

JJK

My "favorite" is if you depress the key just a fraction of a second too long when attempting to copy files in Windows Explorer, Windows will think you mistakenly want to "copy" the files and without asking makes copies. You can end up with dozens of copies you don't want just because your finger stayed on the button a fraction of a second too long.

Another annoyance is the pop up asking if you want to remove what Windows thinks are infrequentlly used icons from the desktop. Bad enough it asks, when I don't want it to, you dismiss the pop up and right away Windows asks again a second and then a third time.

Above are more creature annoyances. Where Windows is really dumb is by default the Microsoft policy is to turn everything on. So net BIOS is there active wide open to any malicious hacker to fool with and perhaps gain access to your system. I wonder if they fixed that. Haven't looked. I know Steve (author and Internet Guru of Spinrite frame nailed Microsoft on that one. He showed them how easy it was to get into Windows through a backdoor and in a conference call talking to a lot of the big wigs at Redmon they to a person defended the practice. Which is what I mean by Microsoft being so damn arrogant. They get shown a obvious security breach, then they pretend its a Windows "feature" rather then the obvious open invatation to mischief.

>>...Another thing, since installing SP2 in starts off every fresh boot with a
>>moronic warning nagging (and incorrectly) that my Virus profile is out of
>>date.

As per SP2 documentation, you can turn this monitoring of both your anti-virus software and firewall OFF.

Symantec openly says that due to some anti-something technology, SP2 cannot accurately tell if Norton AV signature files are out of date; that after SP2 has been out for awhile, they will make it so XP can accurately monitor your NAV fiiles.

You go to, I think (from memory) it's the "Security Center," and there you can turn the monitoring off of both your Anti-Virus software and firewall.

Personally, I have had no problem with SP2 at all.

BB,
you contradict yourself so many times. Your original gripe started because uStuff tried to fix a security hole but that screwed up something for you. Not saying you're wrong to feel miffed but...
And then you site the example of NetBIOS being turned ON by default. Why do you think they do that, are they lazy? malicious?
Neither, the problem as they've stated many times is when they turn these potential 'holes' off, they literaly have zillions of dumb nuts start screaming cause something doesn't work.
Look I've worked with rock solid OSs, no way in hell you could hijack the OS or have one app screw up another and no buffer overruns. But then apps took much more effort to write, if they went wrong no graceous closure, the OS just killed it dead, drove our programmers nuts. And then to cap it all off the client would keep saying, but this is so simple in Windoz!
uStuff tested a similar approach with Windoz, problem was around 60% of all apps would get killed of by the OS. If they bought out such a variant of Windoz would I buy? You betacha, when it shut down a bad app who would I blame, not uStuff that's for certain. But then again I've got a vague notion of how computers work. Unfortunately the vast majority of users don't.
I'm not defending uStuff, there's plenty to critise but I've watched Linux gurus at work. sat next to one for a few years, full time job for him just looking after our backend mail server and basic intranet, stuff any dummy can get run using uStuff code. Which was the most solid, hells bells, the Linux stuff by far and away. But in the end we just couldn't afford the total cost of ownership.

Bob.

Ah... I never mentioned uStuff once for starters.

Turning on NetBIOS is like leavng your front and back door unlocked and you live in the ghetto. The Internet has gotten much more dangerous, why help hackers?

Many "features" Windows turns on by default aren't needed by most people. Its much simpler to ASK if you want something turned on then to expect people will turn off what most don't even know is on to begin with.

I wonder why they have a Windows XP PROFESSIONAL version? Something marketed as professional grade SHOULD act like it. Windoze in hog in a slik dress. The bottom line is its still just a pig