OT: Seeking Advice from the forum

eejackson wrote on 1/14/2004, 9:55 AM

Hello Fellow Vegas Users: Please forgive me in advance for placing a post that really is off the Vegas topic and that is quite lengthy. But I knew that I could get some really truthful answeres from you here at the forum.

For the last three years my husband and I have been running a small, in-home business creating photomontages for people. We also have had small jobs where we take a customers raw home video footage, edit it, and then burn it to DVD or output it back onto a VHS tape. Honestly, we started doing this as hobby for free to family and close friends and then it just turned into a small business. Upon reading the remainder of the post, please keep in mind that neither myself or my husband has any experience in shooting video beyone an amature status.

So here it is: We have been approached on more than one occassion by freelance videographers who would like to do side jobs for us shooting event video such as weddings, birthday parties and such. They do not want to edit, or do any post production work. They would prefer to just shoot raw video, hand over the tapes and let my husband and I take it from there.

We are seriously considering this venture. But I would like to cast this out to all of you for input as to the following:

1:What is the typical pay-scale we would offer this gentleman for events such as weddings.

2: I love editing and story telling through the use of Vegas, and creating custom graphics, but most of our work has been with stills and amature home video footage . My fear is that we do not know enough about professional video to offer such a service.

3. The one potentail vidoegrapher uses two cameras. A JVC Super VHS the other is a Canon GL2. I'm not sure what camera the other interested party is using.

4: If this panns out, we are thinking of getting a JVC HR-DVS3 Mini DV-S/VHS deck....any thoughts on this piece of equipment or known Vegas compatability issues.

5: Any other general opinions, thoughts, ideas or criticisms be greatly appreciated.

Thanks All
Lori J.

Comments

filmy wrote on 1/14/2004, 10:57 AM

I can help with some of the questions - in no order. (sorry)

I have a JVC SR-VS30 and it works fine in Vegas. You ask about the "HR" version and to the best of my understanding, and this came from B&H as well as other sources - mainly B&H, the "HR" is the 'consumer' version and it does not do timecode and it doesn't playback DVCam. The "SR" version is the 'pro' version and does timecode and plays back DVCam tapes. The other differences are cosmetic. If you shop around you will find there is only between 50 -100 price gap between versions, but overall they are the same. I love mine and have had no issues with it. (Also I only use one brand of tape and if you do a search you will find threads about how mixing and matching brands of tapes can cause problems, not with this deck but with any camera or deck)

Pay scale depends on many factors. The first thing I tell people is to look around at what other companies in your area are paying *and* charging. In many areas a lowball price for shooter with experience is 100 - 150 a day. If they aren't that experienced it drops down to around 50 - 75. But these are smaller areas - going to a place such as L.A the prices change a lot. One of my best friends is a DP and his lowend rate starts at $5,000.00 a day. His 1st AC started off with him at $350.00 a day to 1st and $500.00 a day to shoot, and now gets $1,000.00 a day to 1st and I am not sure what he gets to shoot. So you need to look around, ask questions - get rate sheets from others and use that as a basis. The idea is not to undercut the others just to do it, but you can get an idea of what is the acceptable range for the area....as well as the type work.

Quality should be paid more than just some person who has a camera and wants to shoot. In other words if someone with a great reel and lots of experience comes in you may consider paying them a higher rate than someone who comes in who has only shot a few weddings but has all their own gear. You ultimately must decide will it be 'cheaper' budget wise to hire out a person who can supply all their own gear or better to hire out a person who gives you the look you (your clients) want but you have to rent gear. You are talking freelancers as well so you can be more open and remember they can very easly end up working for your 'competition' as well...so you want to keep the best people on your good side. That doesn't always mean money - it just means if you hire them you try to supply them with whatever they need. If you pay them well but tell them to pay for their own transportation, brown bag it and make them stand in the rain for hours the pay may not be the issue next time.

As far a "pro" vs "amature" - again, see what else is out there in your area. Look at it and see what it costs. Can you do exaclty the same thing? If so than you are fine. If not than you need to just adjust your prices accordingly. Very basic example would be the company down the road charges $200 to edit and they turn out a final result that includes DVD authoring that rivals what you see on a hollywood release. You can't do that. So instead of charging $200.00 you only charge $100.00 and make it clear you can do DVD but you can't do the menu driven, THX, DTS 'epic' that they can. It may sound bad but it isn't because as with most things - you pay more for the bells and whistles and more times than not you don't really *need* the bells and whistles. And if you loose one or two people because they want them, that is ok. Rather than try and please those few you need to look at the overall picture.

Do what you can now with what you have. If it is good work and people like it they will work, and grow, with you.

eejackson wrote on 1/14/2004, 11:18 AM

Thank You filmy for all of your input. I really do apprecaite the fact that you took the time to address some of my concerns (er, fears..).
Lori J.

Randy Brown wrote on 1/14/2004, 11:28 AM

Not to detract from the thread but:
>>Also I only use one brand of tape<<
I have the same deck as you filmy. I noticed just this morning though that it is producing glitches (pixelation) from both of my Canon XL1s' using Sony Premium tapes. The deck is only about 3 months old and I clean the heads about once a month (or about every 10 hours of record/playback). Now I'm trying to decide if I should go with the Sony "Excellence" or send the deck in for repair. Two questions for you sir, what would you do if you had this problem and what tapes do you guys use?
TIA,
Randy

Jsnkc wrote on 1/14/2004, 12:09 PM

If It were me I wouldn't clean the heads so often, you are probably causing more harm than good. I would only clean them if you start to notice playback or recording problems. Or once every 6 months or so, whatever comes first.

rmack350 wrote on 1/14/2004, 1:24 PM

All of Filmy's advice is good. As it should be because he's got years behind him in the biz (I hear).

The one point he missed was the nature of this relationship. So let me try to restate what I'm hearing:

One or more camerapersons are asking you for editing services. They already have the jobs, or will get them. They assume all the production risks (like camera failures, knocking over the wedding cake, etc. )

What you need to find out is how people bill to handle this sort of edit job. One way to do it is to make calls and get estimates. Make the calls out of your area so your fellow local editors don't think you're sneaky (or dumb-you'll ask dumb questions that will haunt you in ten years when you figure it out).

Filmy is quite right that you don't want to totally lowball the work. If you do then others will badmouth you. Keeping up a billing standard makes other people in the biz see you as part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

If you start to edit a lot then the next steps may be writing and producing. Then you can hire these shooters to work on your jobs. Or someone better maybe.

Of course you should ask these clients (they're really producers if they're managing these jobs) what they want to pay.

Don't be surprised if they're looking for a great deal and dump you as soon as they get a better gig. They move on and so do you. Just the way it is.

Oh, and by the way, a DP making $5000.00/day often puts in a lot of pre and post effort as well. It's a directorial job after all, not just shooting. You may also put in some unbillable hours.

There have been some great threads about this in the three forums so you should do some searching.

Rob Mack

Sid_Phillips wrote on 1/14/2004, 1:48 PM

Lori:

1. The question is, what is it worth to you to give up an hour of your life to do this work? The going rate for your area might be $10/hr, but is the effort worth it? In my area I charge $75/hr.

2. If you're good enough for them to consider hiring you, you're a pro, not an amateur! I doubt myself on every job, till it's over. Then I'm amazed that I could be soooooo good once again!

3 & 4. Vegas seems to love just about any miniDV camera, but I've seen reports of users having problems with A/D converters (for the VHS stuff). All the problems I had when I started went away after I re-formatted my hard drive, reloaded Winbloze 2000, and *only* loaded Vegas and what I needed to produce graphics with.

5. If you really love editing, go for it! Before long you probably won't remember what life was like before you immersed yourself in it as a business. Good luck!

filmy wrote on 1/14/2004, 1:55 PM

>>>Oh, and by the way, a DP making $5000.00/day often puts in a lot of pre and post effort as well. It's a directorial job after all, not just shooting. You may also put in some unbillable hours.<<<

Oh yeah...commonly there are other agreed upon rates as well. There can be be day rates and 1/2 days rates. And normaly there are pre-production (prep) rates as well. But I think for what is being talked about here it may not need to get that detailed...I could be wrong. A lot of the prep rates go to location scouting, camera and equipment prep/rental pick up, pre planning meetings. 1/2 day rates speak for themselves...a rule of thumb is to offer a 1/2 day rate for prep. If you want to get into it more - something else I forgot are things like canceled shoot pay. It is just something to think about because if you don't at some point less than 24 hours from a shoot somethng will happen and the shoot will have to be cancelled and you need to know the answer to "Do I still have to pay them?"

eejackson wrote on 1/14/2004, 5:35 PM

I can't thank all of you enough for taking the time to respond. I knew I could get some very valuable info from the froum. I am just very nervous about extending my business beyond what I do now. Thanks again
Lori J.

randy-stewart wrote on 1/15/2004, 10:33 PM

Lori J.,
Would you and your husband be willing to exchange e-mail about how you developed your business? I'm in a similar boat several years behind you and would appreciate any advice you can give. Also, would love to see some of your stuff. If interested, check out my web site: http://www.cr-home-videos.com/ and e-mail me at the "contact us" page. Would also appreciate any feedback on the sample videos there. Thanks in advance!
Aloha,
Randy

eejackson wrote on 1/17/2004, 8:10 PM

Hi Randy: I sent you an e-mail via the "contact us" feature on your website. I'll be in touch soon !!!
Lori J.