"I can't imagine that anyone here would disagree with this, but maybe folks out there want the melodrama, or maybe they want the attention of saying look at me I'm gonna jump and disagree with me, but i'm guessing the majority are in agreement here."

Pot meet kettle. Seriously, did you need to make a new thread on this or couldnt you have replied on the same thread or maybe...just maybe youre looking for that attention yourself Dave.

I would fathom to guess that the reason many are here voicing their threats is that they truly dont want to leave Vegas. Again, I repeat, they dont want to leave Vegas....however, they also dont want to get left behind with the cooler newer features from competitors. Some also dont want to leave because they dont want to have to learn a harder NLE or way of doing things that Vegas has made easier for them.

What else can they do? Every release new requests are put in and every release those requests go unfulfilled. Threatening to take your business elsewhere is about the only thing that makes companies listen other than actually doing it.

If Vegas was my only app, I would be frustrated seeing other people do really cool stuff that my NLE couldn't do. I would be angry if my investment in my NLE was getting passed by those competitors that I used to loathe having to install any of their software. Maybe the biggest reason of all is that for all those years others have told me how Vegas is just a toy and doesnt compare to the Big A's and the fear is setting in that maybe.......just maybe they were right after all.

Furthermore, this thread does nothing but bait those who are threatening to jump to respond and defend themselves and those that support your side to join in as well. Then what will you have? The exact same thread that already exists many times elsewhere on the forum.

So again, I ask you, whos trying to draw attention with this thread?

"I'll be glad to give a little push"

My point exactly and it was made before I even finished my post.

Dave said "...why *jump* ship... Don't have the budget for that many boats, that doesn't matter cuz you already have vegas..."

My point exactly.

Cliff Etzel
bluprojekt

I noticed you didnt include those that have the budget to jump ship when Vegas 8 is released and are trying to determine whether to invest in what is becoming a dinosaur or to move on to new tools that will increase their work flow. If Vegas isnt doing what they need or what competitors are offering, then they are expected to complain, threaten, bitch, etc.... As I see it, they are doing Sony a favor by allowing Sony to continue to keep their business instead of keeping quiet and jumping ship quietly. Who does that really benefit in the end?

"Threaten"?
With what can one threaten?
We've already gicen SCS our money, I've paid for everything they have to offer apart from Acid, so what can I or most of us threaten them with?

A bit of a reality check, at a rough estimate less than 0.1% (and that's being VERY generous) of Vegas users ever come to this place. Of all the local Vegas users I know of only 2 post here. This place is not representative of the Vegas using community. In fact most users of ANY NLE don't frequent fora.

And as you've suggested most just vote with their wallets, the cost of ANY NLE, even a top of the line Avid system (yes, I mean the ones that cost over $250k) are trivial expenses for most that use them, anyone with any sense will jump ship or add another boat to the marina in a heartbeat if that's what it takes to get the job done.

Take a look around a high end production house, a couple of $Ms is facilities, wages, other ongoings etc, you think software costs are a big worry for the bean counters?

Look at a small production company, relatively the same thing goes.

Just look at ANY profession, the cost of tools are trivial. The builders drill burns out, he just buys another one from the nearest hardware store.

Bob.

It's not always a "favor" when a problem customer chooses to stay with you :-) Not that I'm saying anyone here fits that description, of course. The initials ZG come to mind though.

The thing is that this is a user forum and having a pouty little grousing post doesn't get anyone anywhere and just makes them look kind of infantile. Not to say that a person shouldn't talk about moving to other systems, just that sometimes it gets a bit immature.

I very much appreciate those forum members that really do use a couple of systems and can offer broader perspectives here. But there's a huge difference between someone with broad experience and someone with little or no experience in the other system who is threatening to pick up their marbles and go play somewhere else.

Rob Mack

hahahah give a little push hahahahaha

I'm still curious what features that Vegas lacks and the others have truly leaves the majority of Vegas users "behind?" Are these features that the complainers HAVE to have or WANT to have? And when did any feature of any given version of any NLE make somebody a better editor?

Seems to me that often the "newer" features being demanded are ahead of the general consumer curve and really don't effect most people either way.

Seems to me that often the "newer" features being demanded are ahead of the general consumer curve and really don't effect most people either way.

The problem is that Sony advertises Vegas in professional video publications that are not directed towards general consumers, so they build an expectation that the product is suitable for this purpose.

I would really like to see a statement of direction from Sony:
What is you target market for Vegas?

This is from Sony's own page on Vegas:

"Efficient, Professional Workflow
The Vegas 7 interface provides a fully customizable workspace for accomplishing a wide range of production requirements. Dock multiple windows across multiple monitors, and save your layouts to fit specific editing tasks; nest Vegas projects within the timeline, customize and save keyboard commands, and use application scripting to automate repetitive tasks. System-wide media management produces maximum efficiency. Network rendering saves time by using multiple computers and networked drive arrays to render complex projects. Vegas software also supports 24p, HD and HDV editing. More about the Vegas+DVD workflow"

They seem to call it professional.

And this from DVDArchitect Page:

DVD Creation
Nothing beats DVD Architect software for professional DVD authoring. Its clean, drag-and-drop interface and powerful layout and authoring tools make it easy to develop dynamic menu-based DVDs, movies, picture slideshows, and music compilations. DVD Architect 4 software works seamlessly within the Vegas 7 environment.

Professional DVD Layout and Design
Author menu-based and single-title DVDs using backgrounds, motion menus, buttons, text, and effects. Set content to loop, hold, or timeout at the end of a scene. Import layered Photoshop (PSD) files for use as backgrounds, buttons, masks, and graphics.

Sure sounds like they are marketing as professional.

I am a prosumer. I have a Canon 5D and HDR-FX1. I even have an extensive Digital Juice collection. I have used Vegas since Version 4. I love Vegas - have V7d now.

I just bought the Master Collection from Adobe. Multiple reasons for that. I have Photoshop and would like CS3 Extended. Would like Dreamweaver, Flash, etc. so I can share my projects with friends and family. When you start pricing it all out individually, makes sense to go the whole hog - After Effects is probably something I will make an effort to learn. Don't think Adobe's app for audio (can't remember what it is called) is as good as Sound Forge - haven't made that plunge yet either as Vegas seems to be pretty good on that front.

I will happily edit on Vegas cause I like it and it suites all my needs. Can't wait to see what Vegas 8 has install - snapping in V7 was greatest feature. It is not always the big changes that are important.

I also use OpenOffice at home at Microsoft Office at work - files are interchangeable. Know that is a slight tangent.

The point is, there is probably no single application on earth that can meet the needs of the individual - or there are multiple ways of doing the same thing.

Media Management for example - all of them are a joke right now - Adobe Bridge, Media Manger in Vegas, iTunes, Windows Media Player (biggest laugh), etc. Reason being, they are all biased in the way they do things - file formats, etc.

Software is written to fit a need. The chances of finding a single piece of software to fit all needs is almost impossible. You need to use what fits. Vegas fits my purposes, but at least I have flexibility.

Now, lets find a 3D app that is easy to use? That's the next level - after all, video is just a 2D plane.

>>...The initials ZG come to mind though.

Z >Y< G

:)

>>...curious what features that Vegas lacks and the others have...

The "puppet tool" looks very cool. May be an AE thing. Looks like you can animate/motion warp via keyframes a static image. I could see where that could come in real handy.

That's about all that I personally would want.

I would settle for Vegas' Copy and Trim Media with project to work correctly.

Brainstorming is very cool especially for those moments when you have a block or just want to try out some new ideas and the shape layers are really nice as well and the animation presets are extremely nice when on a deadline and Keylight blows away Vegas' chroma keyer by a mile or two.

Vegas' time remapping is still worlds better than PPro.

I think the joke titler and complete lack of major plugin support is the source of much of the angst.

Who knows, Vegas 8 might finally all of these areas. Hopefully history is not the indication of where Vegas 8 is going.

I bought Vegas 4 in 2003 and upgrade each year. Workflow enhancements in 7 are great. Vegas Rules! Cannot wait for the next release! So i guess what I am saying is that I am not leaving or buying another ship. But if you need one knock yourself out. As long as you have a good ROI then it makes sense to buy it.

Just one favor that I ask. When you are jumping ship don't try to sink mine.

Harold

sorry Patrick I honestly never thought of this being an attention for me thing, I mainly meant it as a statement to say, just use it and/or use something else, just don't be all melodramatic about it (something I really kinda loathe). Sorry if I gave the impression of wanting attention, I could really care less, I just get tired of reading this stuff, and I wanted to specifically point out that you don't have to Just use Vegas.

Dave

Dave, perhaps I came across rather harsh in my initial reply. Perhaps my misunderstanding.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that we want Vegas to continually improve but alot are getting restless with some of the things that have gone unaddressed.

He who must not be named.

-R

whos that? zippy? he was a major character.

I think Vegas is a great program.... and this is from some one who until recently, an outsider.
I've been an Avid guy for a while now and have been watching Vegas from the sidelines. I finally got into Vegas in version 7 not necessarily because it was an outstanding program, but rather because I saw a steady stream of advancements with each new version released.

I don't think Vegas is "the best" program out there... personally I don't think there is a best. They each do different thing a slightly different way. But a lot of these programs seem to be stuck in the same rut and merely introducing some kind of different packaging idea with each new version..... which I must admit, seems to be working on a few of the more gullible. But Vegas 8 for example will have a totally new 64bit base to it.... that's hardly a minor bump up in versions.

The point is that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Vegas is right now sitting on an Engineer's desk while he tries to figure out how to make it better..... instead of sitting on a board room table while a bunch of white-shirt managers try to put a new price tag on it, and give the box a new color scheme while they bundle it with other software to try and make it APPEAR more interesting. Of course if you want to fall for that kind of gimmickry... then hey.... the best of luck to ya.

Yeah - good post b3t

Amongst all this shipjumpthreatening, I've been wondering - how many other NLE's are putting out a 64 bit version ..... this ... year...?

Peter,
the much better question is:
How many NLEs are forced to put out 64 bit versions this year or ever?
Someone please tell me what 64bit brings to the table. I watched the demo at NAB and I was underwhelmed.

Bob.