Thanks!
My question illustrates that I do not really know what the terminology is. But I know what I want!

It goes like this: I am going to make a very small movie.
I want to organize dialogs, camera positions, and "scenes". Again - I am unfamiliar with the terminology. But I want some sort of software that will help me organize this. So when the day comes when I will start shooting, I have already printed out a plan for this, each "action --> cut" on a separate paper. These "action --> cut" are then organized into what I call camera positions. I want to rig my gear, camera, microphones, light etc. as few times as possible, even if I shoot the end of the movie right after the beginning. Exactly like the big guys do.

The Final Draft AV is not what I am after. I am sure software exists that will satisfy my needs, if I only could explain it better!

ingvarai

Try Celtx at

http://www.celtx.com/overview.html

Thanks a lot!

Not bad, this application. But still I feel I am not where I want to be.

Let us say I have a story where everything happens in the kitchen. the living room and in the bedroom. In each of these rooms I have 3 positions where I will put my camera, to film the face of people talking to each-other.

The story is written, with all dialogs. And I know all positions where I will put my camera. The software I am after will allow me to group shots into camera positions in each room, and further up the hierarchy group camera positions into locations (rooms).

When I am done editing, I want the software to break down my story, organize shots to a a printout that says:

Camera Rig 1 (Bedroom, camera points at the window)
Shot 112: Actor A: "I am sleepy"
Shot 113: Actor A: "Good morning!"
Shot 114: Actor B: "Good night!"

Camera Rig 2 (Bedroom, camera points at the door)
Shot 115: Actor A: "Good night to you too!"
Shot 116: Actor B: "Yawn, oh - fine morning"
Shot 117: Actor B: "I am a little tired but will read a little before I go to sleep"

Does anyone understand what I want?
I can do this in Word, but I really want dedicated software for this.

ingvarai

You're attempting to create a format that doesn't exist. You have, basically, three options:

1. Continunity script (screenplay, can include camera angles).
2. AV script (as shown in Final Draft AV).
3. Storyboards (which "show" camera angles and may include dialog).

Other than this, you'll just have to create you own in Word or Excel.

You're attempting to create a format that doesn't exist.
Hm.. I trust you.
But I would also like to know how they do it in Hollywood. I do know they shoot many shots from the same camera position when they finally have rigged light, sound, furniture, camera and actors. Some of thse shots may span moths in tht story, but they are shot on the same set for practical reasons.
And they definitely know how the actors will behave and what dialogs they have. And all this is made beforehand, I know, at least most of it. And they must have a way to organize all this, so that they know that on Thursday after noon, they will shoot scene 6456 with the camera pointing at the lion and the actor is supposed to scream.
And I do not think they use Excel. I will investiagte further and come back when I have found something. IF I find it..

ingvarai

Movie Magic Screenwriter

http://www.screenplay.com/p-29-movie-magic-screenwriter-6.aspx

It does all that stuff. Production breakdowns are amazing.

I've started to like the free celtx program, even though I have expensive pro software.

It does both screenwriting and production planning very well.

Check out frogmugsy's link above, definitely worthwhile imho.

Ok, interesting. I have installed Celtx, and will have a close look at it.

I also came across this:
http://www.carolinaflicks.com/?p=90
It is a shotlist manager. Unfortunately it requires MS Sql Server Express, this is overkill if you ask me. But it is able to import data from Celtx, which makes it very tempting to use.

Edited:
Check out frogmugsy's link above, definitely worthwhile imho.
Definitely!! Thanks a lot guys, you've been of great help so far. Celtx has a Wiki, and there are several video tutorials, which I all seem to be well made and to the point. I am facing some studying now, this is all new to me, but very interesting.

ingvarai

"But I would also like to know how they do it in Hollywood."

It's very complex and there is NO one program that does everything you want done.

In a nutshell, you're talking about production management. The script is broken down into scenes--each and every element--location, time of day, actors, costumes, props, etc., and included in the production manager's notebook. This information provides the call sheets used by each department for the day's shoot. The production is then, more often than not, laid out in a certain sequence, as you mentioned--like locations are shot back-to-back, no matter where they fall in the film. Seldom are the scenes of movies filmed in chronological order.

Yes, there are production management programs, but they are expensive.

Unless your movie is very complex and requires a sizeable crew, just go out and shoot it. Don't get bogged down with such "Hollywood details," unless you're shooting a Hollywood scale movie.

Jay,
I agree with what you say, mostly. But not with this:
>Unless your movie is very complex and requires a sizeable crew, just go out and shoot it.

I am not totally unexperienced. And one of my most valuable experiences is how important it is to plan beforehand. Even on small projects. I will have a look at MovieMagic Screenwriter now. It is not free, but not expensive at all.

ingvarai

There is a great, but dated, book entitled Film Budgeting and Script Breakdown that is a manual for production managers. It shows you how to organize any film small to large and to organize groups of shots per setup per day etc. Its method could be adapted to a spreadsheet very easily. I found it to be very informative and practical. The author is Danford Chamness. I have no idea if it is still in print.

EDIT: Available from Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Guide-Budgeting-Script-Breakdown/dp/0941806022/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242340697&sr=8-1

So.. MovieMagic Screenwriter won't run at all on my Vista 64-bit.
>Film Budgeting and Script Breakdown
Thanks for the info!

I hope your spending a least this much time and effort on the script.

>I hope your spending a least this much time and effort on the script.
lol - Good point!

I love good tools, and maybe spend too much time looking for them. When I started with video one year ago, I purchased Pinnacle, Adobe After effects and onother NLE that I have forgotten, before I found Vegas. The reason I am here, in this forum, is that I never gave up, until I found something I could use. And Sony Vegas is exactly that.

ingvarai

I've started to like the free celtx program, even though I have expensive pro software.

I have had a look at both the Screenwriter and the Celtx application. I must say that this area is so new to me, I do not really understand how to use any of these two applications.
What I have today is the complete story with dialogs in a Word document. How this will look on video is still only in my head. What I had hoped for is a tool that will let me set up virtual camera rigs and then assign the action to rigs as appropriate.
So basically, what I want is to assign various parts of the action to individual "shots", or "Camera rigs" which is a term that sounds good in my ears.

When Sunday comes, I want a list of camera rigs. I do Rig 1, set the lights, mount my camera, local microphones, remote microphones, sound recording etc, pull cables out of view, place reflector(s), adjust white balance, test sound and so on, to prepare for the shooting.

Then comes what I am after. I want a list of shots that will be taken from this camera position! These shots do not necessarily belong to the same action in the film. They belong to the Camera Rig, for practical reasons. I shoot and shoot, actors play an play, until the shot list is complete.

I then move my gear to Camera rig 2. And start over with the shot list for Rig 2. I tear my hairs out (what is still left of it), but I really do not understand how to use neither Screenwriter nor Celtx for this purpose.
I am going to shoot this on Sunday, and am getting a little impatient. I think I will resort to pen and paper and a scissor..

ingvarai

What I had hoped for is a tool that will let me set up virtual camera rigs and then assign the action to rigs as appropriate.

Sounds like you want pre-visualization software such as FrameForge 3D. FF3D gives you optically accurate previews with all camera data recorded in metadata, and it can even create animated sequences if needed to evaluate the timing.

You are right, Coursedesign, such software would be fine. I have tested it, actually, but I think it has not been updated the last years. They advertise with "XP Theme enabled", and Pentium III 500Mhz as requirement.. When I read this, I think the software is discontinued.
There are other apps though, who do similar things, modern apps.

I realize that I am maybe looking in hte wrong direction. Perhaps applications exist who do what I want, they only are not named the way I expect..

ingarai

Didn't take time to read all previous, but maybe have a look at Storyboard Pro ?

Take a look at John Badham's Shotmaster 2.0 I used the beta version of this several years ago on a lengthy shoot with lots of location, lighting and actor setups, with a client who needed to see how it was all going to fit together. Badham's software worked very well for us.

______________________

Sorry, after hunting for this on the web it appears that the software is no longer available. A pity -- it was good stuff.

Jack

In reality, you can do what you want with a typewriter and a pen and paper, you know like the old days. Most of the work you need to do is thinking. You don't need to be an artist to write storyboards.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ixRMNOAoays/R6h610NG8hI/AAAAAAAACaE/LPgXnQtRBDs/s1600-h/CSL+Taxi+Driver+Storyboard+1.JPG

If you have a your script already writtern, it won't take a long time to format that as script, particularly if you use celtx or some other screenwriting software. probably the best way is to convert to text first and use Cetx's preformatted styles.

If you have your locations or your set you can take digital pictures of your sets and then paste them into Celtx. One reason that script breakdown and storyboards and camera position lists are different documents is they are needed at different times by different people. The storyboards usually exist before the sets, so you can't place your camera anywhere yet, becuase you don't know what the location looks like.

If you're the writer, put your writer's hat on a finish the script in the proper format.
Then put your directors hat on and think about how you want it to look. Then storyboard it. Then put your production manager's hat and break down the script and the budget. Then put your directory of photography hat and work out the camera positions.

They advertise with "XP Theme enabled", and Pentium III 500Mhz as requirement.. When I read this, I think the software is discontinued.

Apps that are not CPU-intensive don't need the latest high horsepower processors to work well, or the beta of the next version of Windows. That is not a negative.

FrameForge is doing very well, and is used at the top film schools as well as by many mid- level filmmakers (the top level guys use storyboard artists).

The latest version is leading the pack:
http://www.frameforge3d.com/Products/Pro-Version/

And a 2 1/2 pencil still rocks for me for most work.

OTOH, FrameForge beats that if you are trying to sell a script or get funding for a production.

Wow - this thread is active again!
In the mean time this topic has been actualized again for me, so thanks for the update.

>Apps that are not CPU-intensive don't need the latest high horsepower processors to work well, or the beta of the next version of Windows
Right, but the expression "XP Theme enabled" clearly indicates that the software is dated. Or someone is some years late at updating the text.
The reason I [still] am interested is that IU want to test out the tempo, the pace - preferably with music, of my film. I am not a professional and I do not have a lot of people involved, I am a so called "DVD rebel".
Ingvar